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Best aircraft for European trips

My reponse would have been any aircraft which he feels comfortable in. Most aircraft are capable of doing European trips. If you like the aircraft you are used to in the US why change.
The Mooney M20K is a great machine. But if it doesn’t do everything you want in the US it will not do everything you want in Europe.
Having, however, read many of the comments regarding comparitive costs between US and European maintenance I would.be inclined to do what @Dan says and go RV.

France

The OP has not been back after dropping a bread crumb into the duck pond

But before getting carried away recommending everything from a Thruster to an AN2, let’s read what he posted, properly

Moving back to the UK (London) area in about 6 months and I’m looking at what aircraft to purchase for my European flying. Most flights will be to South of France, Italy and the UK but looking to other European countries as well. Owned a turbo Mooney in the US and loved the ability to travel far and fast but some of the shortest runways were out of my comfort zone (or grass). I do not want an old twin and my budget won’t be enough for a recent one e.g. DA62 so I’m sticking with a single engine

“Back” means he was in the UK before so probably has a UK PPL, so half the job of UK papers (if flying an N-reg) is done and the other half is addressed pretty well with an IMCR and “Class G hacking”.

“European flying” rules out

  • anything without an autopilot
  • anything uncertified (although France is OK)

Depending on details, he may need a grass capable machine, but something decent fast and comfortable.

A DA62 is not far short of 1 million and he can’t afford that, so that is an idea of the budget.

Based on what I see elsewhere, if he liked Mooneys once (OK with the 1 door, etc) then he will probably want a Mooney again unless there are no suitable runways.

But until he comes back…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Well, that thread was really interesting to me anyway, so thanks for all the answers :)

France

Antonio wrote:

What are your needs for useful load? Family or just you and one friend/partner?

It should be 2 adults incl. myself and a young child. Our Mooney was fine and only had 850 lbs of UL.

Last Edited by xavierde at 23 Aug 14:18
KHPN, LFBE, EGKB, United States

johnh wrote:

Be very careful! Flying in Europe is nothing like flying in the US. After 2 years I am still getting to grips with it. Compared to say Bay Area – LA Area, the equivalent flight in Europe takes a lot of planning and local knowledge.

Apart from the choice of aircraft, you also need to decide whether you want to be N or G. I suppose (don’t know) that the UK has the same rule as EASA-land now, i.e. if you’re resident in the UK, you need equivalent UK licenses as well as FAA (for N reg). If the UK has implemented BASA in a reasonable way, this is possible, but it isn’t trivial.

Thank you. Good point about the UK, I do have both FAA and EASA licenses but only a US IR so was thinking about N-reg but need to check if what worked pre-Brexit still applies.

KHPN, LFBE, EGKB, United States

Peter wrote:

limited

Peter wrote:

Then, where will it be based? Grass or tarmac? London area options are limited.

I used to be based at Biggin Hill which was convenient enough for trips to France but not sure what will be available this time around. Access to the airport wasn’t the easiest from C. London.

KHPN, LFBE, EGKB, United States

In Europe, you often have to fly with full tanks (even if the single leg is not too long), because some destinations don’t sell Avgas / are difficult about it / are very expensive.

So, best thing is to consider as useful load only what remains after the tanks are full. This could mean that many Mooneys (M20K in particular) don’t work for two adults + child + gear.

Whether a Mooney is ok from a runway surface / runway length POV will depend on where you want to base it and where you want to fly. In general, in Europe, a certain number of nice destinations (see the Denmark report) must be scrapped if you can’t accept grass. But then again, since you will always need immigration on your first and last stops anyway, and you will likely want English on the radio, I have a feeling you would only be flying to the bigger airports anyway.

Last Edited by boscomantico at 23 Aug 14:30
Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

xavierde wrote:

It should be 2 adults incl. myself and a young child. Our Mooney was fine and only had 850 lbs of UL.

That is Mooney territory indeed. You won’t find many certified airplanes which do the same speed, altitude and range.

xavierde wrote:

Owned a turbo Mooney in the US and loved the ability to travel far and fast but some of the shortest runways were out of my comfort zone (or grass).

The question is, what runway lenght is within your comfort zone. What I keep noticing while reading American forums and mags is that the idea what a short runway is over there is totally different than what European pilots who grow up on 500-800m runways think. I’ve seen articles discussing “short field techniques” for every day airplanes like Mooneys or Piper for airfields with 4000 ft or more. Over here, anything over 600 m is considered pure luxury.


I’d say not many airfields here are really off limits to Mooneys if you know how to do short field ops in them. comfort zones can be widened by training. Over here, one of the busiest GA airfields (LSPV) housing several Mooneys including up to recently a M22 Mustang is exactly 500m long. I’ve been there many times in my C and never use more than half of the runway to get out and maybe 2/3rds to to land with moderate braking.

If you really are concerned about this, think of a Piper Dakota. That thing has excellent short field capabilities, will do about 135-140 kts and carry the proverbial kitchen sink out of any cow dung heap you can figure. But you’ll fall asleep in cruise if you come from a M20K

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

Peter wrote:

What is the budget here – was my original question!

I’d feel comfortable with 200k for a plane with less than 500h SMOH and good IFR avionics. Less if some upgrades are needed.

KHPN, LFBE, EGKB, United States

200k is a little on the low side if you want something which doesn’t need any sorting. But it is possible. Prices are falling now, after the covid-driven bubble.

My TB20 would do this job well. Broadly speaking, 500m tarmac or 750m grass are the minima, but you want to minimise grass because the plane gets covered in sh*t. Same old story. Some love Mooneys, some love TB20s But if you want to base on grass you probably want something which doesn’t mind getting covered in dirt. A 182 is a reasonable compromise for grass which will reach S France (but not Croatia etc). But lots of IFR tourer types will do the job if S France in one leg is acceptable.

Some trips here out of Shoreham. I could do the same from Biggin Hill. But I would seriously damage my mental health if I had to have the plane hangared or looked after there (don’t ask details). I believe (have seen) there is a hangar there which was mostly bizjets and some SR22s, and you might enquire as to their hangarage costs but bizjets start at 40k/year.

@cobalt may have some input on basing around London.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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