Best aircraft for European trips

I had to nurse my n/a TB20 up to FL110 for our flight to/from Croatia. I doubt I could get it much above FL140 no matter how patient I may be.
Something very wrong going on there – see e.g. here.

I agree with Peter, my TB20 (and they’re all normally aspirated otherwise they’d be called a TB21) has never had issues getting to FL140 and higher.

Wingover wrote:

I just looked at it, very interesting but I have no way of finding cockpit noise level. Can you share more please?

One additional point, I should mention that I’ve got the Turbo variant, and the additional parts in the exhaust already make a 4 Decibel decrease in the “official German noise abatement measurement” in comparison with the non-turbo.

The OP had a Turbo Mooney so he will fall asleep in anything below 180 kts

Mooney_Driver wrote:

The OP had a Turbo Mooney so he will fall asleep in anything below 180 kts

Turbo Comanche can do 208 true according to the handbook. Never done so fast, because it’s abusing the engine, but 175 is easy going in FL100, on around 13.5 GPH.

However if you don’t need the room or payload of a Comanche maybe a Turbo Mooney fits better. Anyway there’s none of the market, and can’t be because there’s only two in Europe and I know the owner of the other one. He won’t sell anytime soon

While not to original OP since mine was merged with the other. I was ready to look at the Mooney M20J but got conflicting feedback on vibration and noise as being more than other similar single engine. some say yes, some, mot at all. I guess I have to read more before deciding to go fly in one.

On a separate note, it seems that the market has taken a turn and starting to be a buyer’s market according to a few dealers I spoke to. I also see lots of Mooneys sitting for sale for close to a year now.

I know there are a few Mooney J owners here so maybe a more detailed explanation on the noise level etc??

got conflicting feedback on vibration and noise as being more than other similar single engine

I have negligible flying experience in Mooneys but would be really surprised if there was any truth in that. Most touring/IFR SEPs have very similar noise and vibration levels. There is a noticeable difference between an SR22 and a TB20 (SR22 is louder) but few people would notice unless they switch types fast and compare. Vibration depends largely on how well built the engine was (dynamic crank balancing) and how well balanced the prop was.

it seems that the market has taken a turn and starting to be a buyer’s market according to a few dealers I spoke to.

Very true, and inevitable in the post covid era. The mad and crazy covid bubble had to burst sometime. In aircraft, in chips, in mountain bikes, in most things.

I also see lots of Mooneys sitting for sale for close to a year now.

That’s probably because there is a lot of old Mooneys around, and many are in a poor condition. Read this for one example. A lot of people think Mooneys are fantastic (they aren’t; they fly a bit faster for the same fuel flow than other types with a larger cockpit) but a rusted Mooney is still a rusted Mooney. The type is pretty old and unless it has been looked after well, there will be a lot of corrosion and a maint company may well just ground it when you take it in for an Annual (in Europe especially). Europe has expensive land, so expensive hangarage, so a lot of planes live outdoors.

My A&P does a lot of prebuys and says most (not all) 1970s Mooneys look pretty much the same underneath. Corrosion everywhere.

What has changed is that a couple of years ago you could have sold a corroded and pretty well shagged 1984 TB20, normally worth about 40k, for 80k. That roughly translates to a 1970s rusted-up Mooney. Neither type will sell easily now; both will be picking up 10k-15k Annuals. Especially if it has been a hangar queen because the seller gave up flying in covid times so any buyer with sense will assume the engine is corroded too and wants to discount the price by the engine OH cost.

An angle valve 360 cubic inch four cylinder Lycoming shakes more than a 6-cylinder anything. It’s also cheaper to overhaul and maintain. I think that’s the basis of the comment about vibration. It’s not specific to the Mooney airframe.

The comments about inevitably ‘old’ and ‘rusted’ aircraft having extremely expensive annual inspections don’t resonate with me. There are surely some dogs out there, but there are a lot of pretty nice 70’s Mooneys and also some nice ones 10-15 years older than that. The only problem is that flying them is like maneuvering a bus but that’s just my view, biased by flying other planes.

With regards to corrosion, my experience in the past few years has been that

a) There has been much more industry-wide awareness, and
b) If anything, the price hike has served to justify a more thorough (read expensive) repair of aircraft in the market

So, corrosion-wise, I tend to think the market is slightly better-off these days than it used to be five years ago.

Those around here who look up in the market for opportunities (I do not) may corroborate or deny…

Peter wrote:

The type is pretty old and unless it has been looked after well, there will be a lot of corrosion

Haven’t Mooney’s got any anti-corrosion treatment? My Comanche has this green coating everywhere, lead bromide I think, and in that 1970 airframe there’s not a single rusty point. I accompanied the last corrosion inspection (last year) and we checked everything, with boroscope if not directly accessible, found nuffin. Moving parts are oiled, it’s inevitable to see some oxidation on a bare iron hinge, but nothing that’s in any way to be observed.

So I do not agree that 1970 types are prone to corrosion. I would turn it the other way round. If it hasn’t been looked after as it should have been then one will have corrosion, in particular if left outside (mine was always hangared). But that should not be the normal case.