Snoopy wrote:
Our U.K. based, G reg TB10 was found to have a cracked exhaust (muffler box) and ruined clamps (should have been noted by previous maintenance company) during a routine 50hr check.
The crack was sufficiently bad that the maintenance company or indeed anyone else we tried was not happy to patch up and we’d still require new clamps.
A new exhaust from Socata was quoted at £15000 ish + VAT and the clamps are currently £325.99 + VAT + Shipping.
OMFG… An exhaust! That´s shameful!
Guys, this is nothing new and merely shows the difference between a proactive owner (of any type) and one who just takes the plane to a maint shop / dealer and hopes for the best. This is not a Merc or a BMW.
Various approaches… and much more in my writeup, but if you rely on a maint company which makes 25% on the parts, you get what you get, obviously 
Socata probably don’t have stock of the oil fill door… but it should not just fly off. It was probably left up and the airflow broke it off. I’d fabricate a replacement – easier under N-reg. Where was that posted? Lots of people in GA live “in isolation” and have no idea where to get parts from other than official dealers.
Re engine shops, you get 10x more choice with N-reg (most US shops produce no EASA-1 and no 8130-3 with EASA approval number).
Lots of people in GA live “in isolation” and have no idea where to get parts from other than official dealers.
This was posted in search of an alternative to the quoted price from Daher.
The point I was trying to make is that parts prices are aligned in price corresponding to the fact that the OEM now only builds TBMs
It is like the SR22 chute; almost nobody knows it needs a €20k job every 10 years
I’ve never met anyone interested in, owning or flying an SR22 who didn’t know about the chute overhaul/repack.
Nobody cares, Cirrus is selling hundreds of SR22s every year.
Looks to me as if the OP is long gone again.
Dan wrote:
Well, I guess you guys haven’t had an engine overhauled for quite a while, have you? You better brace for a shock when time comes…
I had a shockload done by Cermec recently. We were considering expanding that into an overhaul but did not do it, not because of cost but because waiting times for cylinders were approximately 1 year. Had I known that the prop would take 9 months to arrive, I’d have done it! Prices for overhauls quoted by Cermec were within 10% of what I paid to do mine in 2014. So engine overhaul/FR replacements have a pretty straightforward price list, so you know roughly what to expect if you ask the right people, particularly when it comes to a replacement.
Right now, overhaul is a problem due to parts availability for just about all engines, so most people I’ve recently talked to opted to do an exchange with a Factory Rebuild. Those engines are readily available.
As for time limits and the asking prices:
The examples quoted are low hour examples, between 1100 and 1800 hrs TT. That is pretty rare to find. 2 of them have TKS, which is even rarer on TB20’s. All of them have “fly away” avionics, that means there is no need to change anything whatsoever to fly it away IFR. Again that is pretty rare to have a choice of 3 almost similar airframes of which two have TKS to choose from, all in the same price range. That makes for pretty high asking prices, but as it has been said, they are always negotiable.
In Europe, the TB20 is a quite common airframe and therefore much less hassle to maintain than in the US, where nobody knows them. Same thing as the Robins and other French airplanes.
In general, I doubt you can go much wrong with a TB20: It is one of the best travellers around in the all over picture: Great payload, decent speed, massive range. If you consider flying a family of 3-4, the TB20 is the airplane to do it with.
In Switzerland quite a few are based on small airfields of 500 m or so. Short field operation takes getting used to. The few hours I have on the TB20 went out of a 600 M concrete available distance airfield, the airplane was based there and it’s considered ample of runway. I’ve seen TB20’s all over the place including grass stips. With the correct technique and low weight, I’d think the TB20 can do as good as many other planes from such strips, provided they are in good condition.
If I was shopping for a traveller for a family of 3-4, there are 3 options really: The TB20, C182RG or C210. IMHO the TB20 is the by far best solution for this particular set up, for all the reasons mentioned. The Cessnas are quite a bit more expensive.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
I’d think the TB20 can do as good as many other planes from such strips, provided they are in good condition.
In my experience, the issue with those strips is more related to obstacles than the length of the runway itself. Our 210 can be operated 4POB and 3hrs fuel on a SL 500m runway with no obstacles, but 750m and 50-ft obstacles on both ends means I need to crunch a few numbers and have good knowledge of surface condition. Both the 210 and the TB20 do not accelerate well from behind the power curve so I guess the issue with the TB20 is the same.
There is this 500m runway in Swittzerland next to the lake with no obstacles either side that people get their Mooneys in and out of all the time (@Mooneydriver, what is the place?)
A different matter is when there are 60-ft trees on both ends…impacting also the go-around decision…
Antonio wrote:
Antonio26-Oct-23 19:5365
Mooney_Driver wrote:
I’d think the TB20 can do as good as many other planes from such strips, provided they are in good condition.
In my experience, the issue with those strips is more related to obstacles than the length of the runway itself. Our 210 can be operated 4POB and 3hrs fuel on a SL 500m runway with no obstacles, but 750m and 50-ft obstacles on both ends means I need to crunch a few numbers and have good knowledge of surface condition. Both the 210 and the TB20 do not accelerate well from behind the power curve so I guess the issue with the TB20 is the same.There is this 500m runway in Swittzerland next to the lake with no obstacles either side that people get their Mooneys in and out of all the time (@Mooneydriver, what is the place?)
A different matter is when there are 60-ft trees on both ends…impacting also the go-around decision…
Last Edited by Antonio at 26 Oct 19:53
4 letter word!
Don’t worry about the TB20 on grass. Mine was based at a grass airfield for over fifteen years (before I joined the group and after I joined it. I bought the plane outright when the group disbanded). I only moved because redevelopment work meant that it would have been parked outside which I didn’t want. I’ve been into Firs Farm (560 metre grass farm strip) several times without any worries, but that needs accurate flying.
Probably THE nicest Tiger in Europe. But for sale for the second time within a rather short period.
https://www.planecheck.com?ent=da&id=56980
But note that even the 180hp Tiger isn’t very good at short / soft fields.
I’ve only flown once in an AA5. I’m not especially tall (5’11" / 1.77m) but there was no room for my legs. It was funny, I was pax and the plane was being flown by someone working on their CFI, so he was sitting in the right seat. But I ended up flying because there was no place for my legs that wasn’t obstructing either the yoke or the rudder pedals.
Antonio wrote:
There is this 500m runway in Swittzerland next to the lake with no obstacles either side that people get their Mooneys in and out of all the time (@Mooneydriver, what is the place?)
That would be Wangen-Lachen. VAC Chart
There are others though. For many years, Mooney Switzerland was based at Korner Aviation, which is in Bad Ragaz. That runway is about the same lenght as Wangen Lachen but there are quite a few obstacles around.
Antonio wrote:
In my experience, the issue with those strips is more related to obstacles than the length of the runway itself.
Absolutely. I reckon most planes can be operated in and out of such strips but not at MTOW. Checking out performance is absolutely necessary when doing any short field ops. In fact, I personally think it has to be done every time, even if the runway is considerably longer than “necessary”. Total distance is the thing which will cover the Obstacles near the runway. To calculate a proper 2nd segment climb is not always that easy though.
Antonio wrote:
Both the 210 and the TB20 do not accelerate well from behind the power curve so I guess the issue with the TB20 is the same.
I’ve seen quite a few TB20 in Wangen Lachen. Also Hausen am Albis, where I used to fly one, is not exactly huge and has quite a few obstacles. VAC Chart
Short field ops is possible in most airplanes provided people take proper care of performance calculations and read the small print in the POH, where available. Where it does get dicy is if the POH lacks those figures e.g. influence of grass vs asphalt or wet vs dry. But I think the TB20 POH has those factors down. I’ll have to look it up at some stage, but I think Peter probably knows.
