It must be certified or at least have the real possibility to be certified in the next couple of years. Otherwise it is just way too expensive for its capabilities.
Also one would expect a european company to be aware of the IFR-neccessity of a touring aircraft. Why should they go through all this trouble of getting a very respectable range when VMC-conditions for 1.000 nm in a streight line are only possible once every solar eclipse?
As well as it wouldn’t be necessary to invest in certified garmin avionics (e.g. GTN750) if a nice G3X or Dynon can do the same for much less money and better upgrade capabilty.
Regarding the old avgas burner: one shouldn’t make that calculation, it is way too revealing that we should allmost never buy anything new. It remains true though…
ASW22 wrote:
We are proud to announce that the serial production of Panthera IO-540 flying with a Permit-to-Fly is now in full swing.
This looks to me as if they have given up the idea of certification and will produce this plane on PtF basis. Which, as Peter rightly sais, is a huge handicap in Europe, where IFR is practically impossible with this kind of base. Equally, it is not free to fly wherever they want to go, as it has no ICAO CofA. I wonder if it even can fly to neighbouring countries there like Serbia.
With this price there are much better options available such as an Ovation Ultra, which is also in this range and probably some SR’s as well. And they all have the same generation of engine, but these are anyway nothing new at all.
Looks to me a bit like the eclipse story.
Panthera answered my questions in an email. An excerpt of the information provided is below:
There are 4 different versions available of the Panthera aircraft in the following configurations.
• Piston engine IO 540, experimental, factory assist kit built
• Piston engine IO 540 certified under the new rule CS 23 revision 5
• Finally, hybrid propulsion and fully electric propulsion which will be available as experimental, factory assist kit built
The Panthera with hybrid engine and the Panthera with pure electric motor are already in development and will offer the use of different types of fuel; we believe that could include the use of diesel. The first flights for these models are planned for 2019
For the experimental models with Lycoming engine orders placed now we assure the delivery in December 2020 and the delivery for the certified versions in October 2022.
They say that they have 130 aircraft on order and that they are expecting quick progress on these, once production is stabilised (whatever that means).
Their optionslist include air conditioning and de-icing, but as price for those it says “TBA”. So we have to wait and see if they can actually include them in the certified versions.
Prices are:
- for the Experimental with factory build assist: € 490.000,-
- for the IFR-Certified Part 23: € 540.000,-
This is very interesting but how would one reconcile
Piston engine IO 540 certified under the new rule CS 23 revision 5
with
the delivery for the certified versions in October 2022.
Peter wrote:
would one reconcile
they are not anywhere with the certification yet and need to make money with the non-certified one first?
I think Peter’s point was that instead of writing
Piston engine IO 540 certified under the new rule CS 23 revision 5
they ought to have written
Piston engine IO 540 TO BE certified under the new rule CS 23 revision 5
A tiny little difference. 
Anyway, my usual take: if they write “2022” today (i.e. in 2018!), then it will not likely be before 2024. They are taking awfully and incredibly long for everything. I also find it funny they indicate a specific month whilst talking about things 2 / 4 years into the future…
Yes; exactly 
Any date 4 years from now is pure fiction. Even the year, 2022, is pure fiction.
I think any company which can make a living churning out uncertified aircraft, especially UL class, is going to struggle to certify something. To do it you have to build a complete new team which does stuff differently, with different flight test and documentation requirements, and this team has to build new relationships in the certification authorities (that alone can take years). Then there are all the details e.g. you have to buy in certified avionics, but the numbers will be tiny and you won’t get a decent price on the stuff. You have to become a 145, a 21, god knows what else. And the incentive is small, with Cirrus (new and used) owning the upper end of the SEP market and having a very slick marketing operation, and with all the other stuff (TB20s etc) still out there covering the 100k-200k market. Well, we’ve done all this before… I just reckon they will push certification back and back, all the time they can sell their present stuff.
The Panthera looks to me like the ongoing product of Slovenian or EU government grants… for which you must show a well defined company plan and milestones to keep the cash coming. You don’t necessarily have to meet the milestones for that purpose, and the money is not necessarily related to a specific project.
I would not underestimate Pipistrel’s ability to execute. Look at their track record.
Does anyone know if the factory in Italy is actually built?
Flyingfish wrote:
I would not underestimate Pipistrel’s ability to execute
I would not overestimate their ability to forecast, though.
When they announced it in 2012, they expected global certification in 2015.
This does not mean it is their fault – I am sure aviation authorities play their part in the length of this process – but as usual, we all are well advised to believe in any certification when it has happened, and believe in the performance figures when the airframe exists and is flying.
