The DR being no good for IFR is one of the myths of the French aero club scene. Together with IFR is only for pros on multis and many others.
The Aéroclub du Béarn in Pau LFBP does a lot of IR training with Robins. I have no contact there unfortunately.
Probably @DavidH who has a DR500 has an opinion on this ?
The persistent difficulty with the “Robin” and IFR is in the avionics department.
There are very few STCs, and a good number of avionics shops burnt their fingers thinking “the fleet is xxxx planes so there must be demand for upgrades” which appeared confirmed by interest, but at the end of the day few (usually none) put their hands in their pockets. There is a long list of abandoned STCs. A search here on e.g.
Robin AND STC
digs out some. One owner who used to be on here got his fingers severely burnt (lost his plane, last time anyone heard) when the job went badly wrong. Basically you have to make sure any mod either has an STC which exists right now and you can examine it yourself OR (this is a limited route; no RNAV1 or LPV) it can be done as an EASA Minor Change and the installer is completely familiar with the Minor Change process and all the equipment proposed (not just some of it) can actually go in under a Minor Change even just for VFR-only.
Another airframe was scrapped due to an installer mounting some antennae (?) onto the wing spar!
Basically the lesson seems to be that you need to buy the plane with everything you want already installed.
I can’t understand why damage caused by fitting an antenna to the spar of a wooden Robin, the structural repair manual is very easy to understand , comprehensive and allows practically anything to be done IAW the FAA publications on the subject and should be within the capabilities of a good wooden repair company.
There comes the rub…….. if it’s not made from metal most maintenance company’s are very lacking in repair knowledge and skill with wood or composite structures.
I also think that the money to be made from an insurance WO is more attractive than doing the repair, we once arrived at a maintenance hanger at the behest of the insurers to find the mechanic ( and I use the term in its widest context ) hacksawing through the spar pin retainers of an aircraft, when asked why he said the boss told him the aircraft was written off due to the damage we had come to inspect.
The aircraft is now back in service.
As for Robin upgrades I tend to agree with Peter, most Robin owners are strictly VFR Pilots usualy without any instrument qualification and the older airframes have fallen into the hands of the bottom of the market groups who have very little cash for who a trip to the Isle of Wight is a major undertaking. This is all rather a pitty because the aircraft is very capable, I would regularly fly Oxford – Perpignan direct to get to my holiday home.
As RobertL 18C says (and a big thank you to him for my IR training) the Robin is an excellent IFR machine when suitably equipped.
My own DR500 (Robin President) has full IFR capability and I ‘fly airways’ in it quite often.
The most crucial items are an autopilot and a Garmin GTN750 – linked together they are superb.
Here’s an example of an airways flight in the Robin, if anyone’s interested:-
and an ILS to minima:-
Have you flown in torrential rain yet? In some icing conditions?
Torrential rain in a Robin is no worse than any other aircraft, in my experience. Icing is a different matter as I don’t know of any Robin being FIKI equipped. Peter is absolutely correct, the problem comes with retrofitting avionics especially the most up to date equipment, there are very few STCs. However, many Robins in French clubs are equipped for night VFR and VFR on top as part of the original spec, and that goes for many of the 300 series as well.
For those who are fixated on wood being no good for aircraft, have you never heard of the De Havilland Mosquito, it was fast and pretty good in all weathers? and that was just painted wood, not some of the new materials that cover today’s Robins and other wooden aircraft.
I have flown the Robin in rain without problems and I have in the past picked up some Ice but at the first sign of ice I go find warmer air.
The aircraft shows little in the way handling difficulties with small amounts of ice but usualy a 5-10 kts speed loss, any how I don’t recommend it. My rule for is that the MSA must be above the freezing level for IFR flight so I always have a safe place to go if I need to descend.
Gallois.
Clearly the lessons of history are lost on some!
DavidH
A nice avionic fit ! The GTN750 is definitely the way to go if you if you keep the conventional instruments.
A_and_C wrote:
My rule for is that the MSA must be above the freezing level for IFR flight so I always have a safe place to go if I need to descend.
I guess you mean MSA below Freezing level, right ?
Jujupilote wrote:
The Aéroclub du Béarn in Pau LFBP does a lot of IR training with Robins. I have no contact there unfortunately.
Did my CB-IR with the DR401 (and the other DR400CDI) in Pau last year.
Good aircraft, which had some problems with the first generation CDI engines, but pretty reliable with the V2 engines.
The G500 + GTN650 combination is great.
Autopilot is, in my opinion, a must-have in Single Pilot IMC. For my personal case, I think an inop autopilot would be a no go on a long flight with most cruise in IMC and marginal conditions at destination.
STEC55X lacks a pitch or IAS mode for climb (only VS which needs to be monitored like milk on the fire), but otherwise, it does the job really well.
However, the DR400 is, by essence, more sensitive than other heavier platforms (Pipers, Cessnas, TB’s, etc). Stabilized approaches in heavy wind – rain can be tricky. Psychologically, I am more reassured in heavy weather while flying a TB20 than a DR400, but it is just psychological (like an ME pilot would be more reassured while flying a twin than a single).
Correlatively, performances are really amazing with those CDI engines, with a very reasonable consumption.
Jeff64
Correct, it’s a typo !
DavidH nice videos! I had forgotten that other great design feature of your type: it has a proper control column, not a land-o-matic yoke, your next type should be a Marchetti 260.
