which is performed under a contract between an operator and a customer, where the latter has no control over the operator.”
So a non pilot renter gets hold of a Citation, pays 5 hours in advance. Renter then pays a pilot to fly it.
How does the renter (customer) have control over the operator? He can specify when and where he wants to take the airplane, but not much more.
Snoopy wrote:
How does the renter (customer) have control over the operator? He can specify when and where he wants to take the airplane, but not much more.
In this case the renter – or possibly the pilot – would be the operator!
At least the FAA CPL oral expects you to understand the regs :)
Ignoring the distinction between acting as PIC and co-pilot, is the following a reasonable summary of the privileges of an EASA Part-FCL CPL?
(1) Work as a pilot for a company that has an AOC (Air Operator Certificate)
(2) Work as a pilot for the operator of an aircraft in non commercial activities (since if the operator wished to undertake commercial activities, they would need an AOC)
and hence does it follow that if the pilot owns or hires (and hence is the operator?) the plane, then it is irrelevant if they hold a PPL or CPL (or ATPL), since only cost-sharing is allowed?
Or does a CPL grant some other privileges that apply in other situations that I have missed?
derek wrote:
(1) Work as a pilot for a company that has an AOC (Air Operator Certificate)
(2) Work as a pilot for the operator of an aircraft in non commercial activities (since if the operator wished to undertake commercial activities, they would need an AOC)
or option 3
Own a company that owns a plane, rent that plane to your other company that needs to go on a trip, fly that trip yourself and bring whoever you want with you and have them cost share
LFHNflightstudent wrote:
Own a company that owns a plane, rent that plane to your other company that needs to go on a trip, fly that trip yourself and bring whoever you want with you and have them cost share
Why couldn’t you do that with a PPL?
In this case the renter – or possibly the pilot – would be the operator!
Whoever supplied the plane (to the said pilot, to fly) is the operator. This is the standard “private flight” corporate etc scenario.
Ignoring the distinction between acting as PIC and co-pilot, is the following a reasonable summary of the privileges of an EASA Part-FCL CPL?
You are fully correct, plus a CPL is needed to do solo paid stuff like ferry flights, crop spraying (big in the US), and probably in some cases (not in the UK; an AOC is needed) traffic spotting.
What happens when the customer is on board a ferry flight, like this I don’t know, but lots of ferry flights are done like that. They probably work because the passenger is already the aircraft owner, so it is back to the standard scenario already discussed. If the passenger dies at the end of the flight, that should work ok, and if he dies before the flight is concluded then it becomes a paid-for positioning flight 
Various previous threads – example.
Why couldn’t you do that with a PPL?
Too convoluted to get my head around but you can fly on your own company’s business with just a PPL – provided (this is a UK thing) you have the option to take other transport. If that option is missing (i.e. you are an employed “company pilot”) then we are back to the earlier standard scenario; a CPL is needed).
RobertL18C wrote:
At least the FAA CPL oral expects you to understand the regs :)
USA/FAA regulations differ significantly from the EU/EASA ones on cost sharing.
Peter wrote:
You are fully correct, plus a CPL is needed to do solo paid stuff like ferry flights, crop spraying (big in the US), and probably in some cases (not in the UK; an AOC is needed) traffic spotting.
Thanks Peter. Although, perhaps I am not fully correct. If I understand the term ‘commercial operations’ properly (at least in an EASA context), then the scenarios for solo paid stuff which you mention, such as ferry flights, crop spraying, etc., ARE commercial operations. If it is true that at least some of them do not require an AOC, then my point (2) is incorrect.
So, are there any paid ‘commercial activities’ where an AOC is not required?
USA/FAA regulations differ significantly from the EU/EASA ones on cost sharing.
On cost sharing, yes (common purpose rule, etc). I have a US CPL/IR and did this stuff. The particular focus is on “holding out” i.e. offering your services as a pilot. You can do it to a specific extent. You must not supply the aircraft (this has been a common “grey charter” area around the world, because most rich guys whose wife wants to fly to Cannes for a spot of shopping, have no idea where to obtain a bizjet, so the pilot ends up arranging everything, and the required “separation of interests” has been done by the rich guy writing two cheques – one to the pilot and one to the rental company). A search here for “two cheques” produces this
ARE commercial operations.
Ferrying deffo doesn’t need an AOC.
Crop spraying doesn’t in the widely used scenario which is a self employed pilot in the US, and for Europe who knows? There is practically none being done. Some in Greece. But if the crop spraying is a service offered by a crop spraying company (almost certain to be the case in Europe, where everything is tightly tied-up) that company would need a AOC.
are there any paid ‘commercial activities’ where an AOC is not required?
Flight training
Actually an AOC is needed for that in some countries – Croatia?
