Sure, but airspace classes are assigned to a given area in an airspace planning process, with separation requirements in mind, and unless it’s Class A that assignment means equal access to IFR and VFR is a feature of the airspace class that’s been assigned based on known traffic volume, staffing plans and other planning factors.
The reality is that ATC denial of access to VFR preferentially in Classes B and lower is just a symptom of lazy or inept ATC. Nothing else.
Equal access for VFR and IFR traffic in one airspace? Well, not in most European countries, where VFR is often seen as a kind of “second class” traffic.
Back when I lived in Houston, we’d occasionally get denied VFR through the class B. It was never “inept” or “lazy” ATC – they were always busier than a one legged man in an ass kicking contest at the time.
I’ve never been denied a VFR CAS clearance in the UK, but then again I’ve not tried transiting Bristol :-) (and I also have a Mode S transponder, and try to sound competent on the radio, I think those things tend to help if traffic levels are high and the ATCO is a bit on the edge)
Equal access for VFR and IFR is a different thing. The original discussion was regarding France and the claim that GA is entitled to a CAS clearance (except VFR in Class A, obviously). It seems obviously nonsensical, because if it was true then CAS would be meaningless.
If you then add “subject to ATC workload” then the debate becomes more nonsensical because obviously every ATC clearance is subject to ATC workload 
Then you can add France-specific factors like VFR being banned in much of NE France above FL115 (Class D FL120-FL200). So again ATC are obviously not going to give you this, nor, presumably, will they allow you to cancel IFR if say at FL150.
I reckon that the reason this debate got kicked off in France is that GA could not exist in France (just look at the map posted above – some of it is virtually impossible to decipher even in an armchair!!) unless CAS clearances were handed out pretty casually.
Back to “equal access”, IME, in France, and where VFR is not prohibited as above, VFR and IFR routings tend to be exactly the same in reality. No clearance to any mil airspace and no clearance to any part of Paris airspace.
In the UK, certain units deny CAS entry quite often even when, apparently, there is nothing happening. Solent is a regular But in the UK absolutely nobody would try the argument which is the thread topic
Well, they “refuse” IFR CAT also sometimes (rarely but it do happen) due to some kind of congestion or similar. They are already in CAS of course, but are asked to hold. It’s in principle the same for VFR, but VFR can come unannounced.
I have never read anywhere that IFR has more right to CAS than IFR, or the other way around for that matter (VFR har more right to G than IFR).
Back when I lived in Houston, we’d occasionally get denied VFR through the class B.
Class B is a different story, since you are practically speaking IFR as far as the controllers are concerned. I used to transit the SFO Class B often, and it did happen to get refused, though not often. It got harder after someone didn’t follow instructions in a Cessna and gave an RA to an airliner. Didn’t help that the pilot of the 777 (I think) seemed pretty panicked by it. For a while after that transitions did get refused quite often.
But that’s not really relevant to Europe since afaik there is no Class B, certainly not in France.
I got Class C transitions refused a couple of times, at Oakland and San Jose, but I think that was just the controllers exerting the authority for the sake of it. For SJC it hardly matters, you just climb a bit and fly between the B and the C!
I have never read anywhere that IFR has more right to CAS than IFR
It does. It is the standard ICAO procedure. On departure, the tower uses the ritual phrase “cleared to EGKK” followed by the rest of the departure clearance. This is a specific formal process. It runs together with the ICAO Lost Comms procedure which entitles you – once you have become airborne – to fly non-radio the whole filed route and land at the filed time. Yes of course this practically never happens, due to comms systems redundancy, and anyway a NATS guy told me face to face that if somebody did that in the UK they would be “shot down”.
VFR is not entitled to the Lost Comms procedure. You are by definition in VMC and are required to fly OCAS, or (if in CAS) land at the earliest opportunity, whatever.
VFR has more right to G than IFR
Never heard of any such thing. In practice, IFR traffic tends to be routed in CAS (by both Eurocontrol and tactical ATC direction), but can go into G (ATC are then supposed to warn you).
I got Class C transitions refused a couple of times
AFAIK Class C in Europe is universally above FL200 and VFR is banned up there by agreement. There are other bits of Class C lower down e.g. the Swiss one at FL130+ and they tend to not allow VFR transits there. But then we get into this discussion which is a different thing.
Peter wrote:
AFAIK Class C in Europe is universally above FL200 and VFR is banned up there by agreement
Not quite. What is correct that
But there is lots of class C in Europe. Belgian and German TMAs come to mind. All of Germany at FL100 or above.
Back to topic about “right to access” – a very long time ago, what is now “class C” airspace in Germany were “CVFR” (Controlled VFR) areas, and when you called you got to listen to a tape saying “sorry please route around us we are busy”. In France very ferquently you could not raise anyone to get any clearance or support. Belgium was very good at that time by comparison, probably because you can’t really fly for more than 5 minutes without hitting some sort of CAS.
Thas has MASSIVELY improved, France is exemplary (if a bit confusing with their “radar contact” and implied clearances, and German Class C is quite accessible.
AFAIK Class C in Europe is universally above FL200
Plenty of it at “our” altitudes in France. Generally the “skirt” around big airports is C, while the airport itself is D. Usage of airspace classes in France is a total mystery.
Back to topic about “right to access” – a very long time ago, what is now “class C” airspace in Germany were “CVFR” (Controlled VFR) areas.
You must be very old.
Those were the days when German ATC was called BFS, essentially a state agency (Behörde). From stories I have been told, the attitude was totally different back then, a very stiff agency and very patronizing ATCOs. The idea of ATC being a service provider came later.
