Hi, everyone! New to the forum after a few months of lurking and finding out the GA community in Europe seems to be a pretty small place (I’ve noticed members based in Shoreham and Fairoaks, two places I used to frequent!).
Just a quick intro. My name’s Tom, 25, originally from the UK but now living in the EDDH area. My first flying lesson was over 10 years ago but due to a mixture of immaturity and lack of brain cells I stopped logging hours with an instructor after 14 hours in a beaten up old Traumahawk/Terrorhawk at EGKA. In the years between then and now I’ve had a couple of false starts saving money to get my PPL finished but have stayed active in aviation by being the hangar rat at a small farm strip in Sussex and flying in the right seat with friends/colleagues who are also pilots. Anyway I am finally in LMML (not the obvious choice for an airport to train at but it comes with its unique challenges and experiences) doing my PPL full time and expecting to be finished early March.
Now to the technicalities…
I have a UK CAA class 2 medical. The school I’m learning at has an examiner who can also sign off on UK CAA licences. I was hoping to keep everything CAA (to avoid the German licence language barrier) but there are a couple of hurdles I need to overcome before I can do it. One is that on the CAA licence application paperwork it says the RT exam needs to be done by a UK RT examiner (which there isn’t one here) and two the cross country paperwork needs to be signed at each airport I visit. Here in Malta there is no UK RT examiner, does anybody know if a licensed RT examiner with Transport Malta would be able to sign off the UK RT exam? (I think I know the answer but at the risk of looking stupid have asked regardless). Secondly the requirement for a signature at each airport I visit on the x-country isn’t applicable here in Malta either, would the tech log/my log book be enough for the UK CAA to prove that I’ve completed the flights? I have emailed the CAA with my questions but have been told to expect a reply in 10 weeks, google shows nothing and when I’ve called I get cut off repeatedly. I am considering just being issued a Transport Malta PPL and worry about the conversion at a later date as it is still EASA anyway.
Next, I would really appreciate the input of some German members. I will be based around the EDDH area (Uetersen, Stade, Hartenholm etc) and am having issues locating an aircraft to fly regularly. Buying a share in an aircraft (as is popular in the UK) seems to be completely unheard of and joining a flying club (or Luftsportverein) has membership fees of over €1000 a year plus a required amount of voluntary hours per year. The only other option I can see is chartering an aircraft from a flying school or charter company which has a higher hourly cost and no yearly fee but also void of any booking system that shows availability and that I could use regularly.
I am determined not to be the type that gets their PPL then never uses it, or just does the bare minimum amount of hours in the circuit to stay current. I want to go places and gain valuable experience, which I’m sure is a sentiment shared by most on this forum.
Anyway, thanks for reading and I hope to be able to contribute to the forums here in the future.
Tom
Welcome Tom!
Buying a share in an aircraft (as is popular in the UK) seems to be completely unheard of
In Germany, we don’t tend to share aircraft in 8, 10 or 15 as they do in the UK. Rather, we sometimes share aircraft in 2, 3, or sometimes 4. The rest is either single owners or people flying as members of a flying club, which usually share a handful of aircraft.
How long will you stay in Germany? If it isn’t for at least a few years, then buying a share might not be ideal.
joining a flying club (or Luftsportverein) has membership fees of over €1000 a year plus a required amount of voluntary hours per year
Wow, that must be an extraordinary club. Anyway, most clubs either have high yearly fees OR voluntary hours, but not both. Look around some more.
I don’t know exactly where you stay, but I would suggest Uetersen to you (Stade is a very small and basic airfield and doesn’t have daily activity, Hartenholm unfortunately…, is a long story, but the short version is that it is totally run down and at the verge of closing).
Your renting opportunities for Uetersen are listed here:
http://www.edhe.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=59&Itemid=64
Anyway, one way or another, you will have to pay for your flying and it simply isn’t cheap, especially not in a metropolitan area such as Hamburg.
The only other option I can see is chartering an aircraft from a flying school or charter company which has a higher hourly cost and no yearly fee but also void of any booking system that shows availability and that I could use regularly
Hmm, schools or clubs that doesn’t have an online booking system almost don’t exist anymore. But there may be exceptions.
Hi Tom,
did you try this one http://www.hfc-ham.de/
boscomantico wrote:
How long will you stay in Germany? If it isn’t for at least a few years, then buying a share might not be ideal.
I don’t have plans to leave any time in the near future (You could say I’m a Brexit-refugee, or Brefugee. Though that may be in poor taste!). What’s the best way to find a share if I were interested?
boscomantico wrote:
Wow, that must be an extraordinary club. Anyway, most clubs either have high yearly fees OR voluntary hours, but not both. Look around some more.
Hmm, I found one at Stade (with an A210 and a C172), and one in Uetersen (One C152 and 3 TB10’s, the latter of which is an aircraft I would like to try) both asking for voluntary hours and membership fees, but that’s all I can gather from my basic German and liberal use of Google translate. I plan on visiting these places and talking face to face to have things explained to me when I’m back from Malta.
boscomantico wrote:
Hartenholm unfortunately…, is a long story, but the short version is that it is totally run down and at the verge of closing)
I visited Hartenholm a year or so ago and yes, it did look a little depressed.
Do you have any information on Ahrenlohe?
Tigerflyer wrote:
did you try this one http://www.hfc-ham.de/
Ah! I found this one a while ago but lost it and never managed to find it again. Thanks!
The qualifying cross country certificate is an obsolete hangover from pre EASA – there is no part FCL requirement for such a thing and CAA cannot insist on seeing it. If your school does the CAA PPL course completion certificate all is required is the date of the flight – the Head of Training certifies that all course requirements have been met.
Hmm Hamburg is expensive, but after browsing on the aeroclubs and charter companies pages in Uetersen, I certainly underestimated their prices. I would recommend to think about owning (but that is independent from the offers…)
Itzehoe/Hungriger Wolf may be an option, their prices / services sound reasonable, both for flying and hangar rent: http://www.flugplatz-hungriger-wolf.de/index.html
You may find open places in “Haltergemeinschaften” often on black boards or by talking to the locals.
Hi Tom,
I’m frequently in Hamburg/Lübeck area for work and I have to agree that rental options, as far as I could dig them out, are not that great compared some other areas of the country. I have been renting with CanAir, they run a Thielert 172 out of Uetersen, which I found okay but for its condition not exactly cheap. I have also rented with FTO Nord, who are based in Hamburg but keep their aircraft in Lübeck. Their conventional 172 is also okay but not amazing value for money.
Still I would suggest you start with some of these options – they give you a lot of flexibility in the beginning, keep you flying without having to buy into anything long-term straight away. Also, I think as you progress through the small GA “population”, sooner or later you might come across a nice setup for you where you’d be able to get a share in. I don’t know, but I suppose it’s hard to find a share with complete strangers in the beginning and zero hours as PIC…
mh wrote:
Itzehoe/Hungriger Wolf may be an option, their prices / services sound reasonable, both for flying and hangar rent: http://www.flugplatz-hungriger-wolf.de/index.html
Itzehoe is an option I looked into and the price reduces after you’ve flown 10 hours with them, which is nice.
Patrick wrote:
I have been renting with CanAir, they run a Thielert 172 out of Uetersen, which I found okay but for its condition not exactly cheap
This is what’s looking most promising at the moment.
One more question for the Germans on here. How do I find airfield diagrams and information? I haven’t been able to find the AIP online and the only way I can figure out is by searching for the website of the airfield (which is often close to useless) or purchasing Flieger-Taschenkalender.
Patrick, EDLE is on my list of airfields to visit this year as my girlfriend is from Wuppertal. Maybe see you around!
NinerEchoPapa wrote:
I haven’t been able to find the AIP online …
That’s because the VFR version isn’t. Well, it is, but not for free. When I did not have access to digital Jeppesen Charts (VFR and IFR) through my company yet I used to buy the Fliegertaschenkalender. Usually a one or two year old version for 1 Euro from eBay.
I guess if you ask around a little some fellow pilots will send you the charts you need by email (you can use the “send user-to-user message” button in the profile page for that).
I usually just copy the VFR approach plates from the club or airfield I fly from. Every aerodrome has to have a publicly accessible copy of the AIP VFR afaik.
