Hello,
As a foreigner can anybody explain the rules regarding the Austrian MTA areas? Quite a numner of those around Zeltweg. They do not seem to come with an airspace classification and contain partly class E and D. Can VFR traffic simply cross in the class E parts?
Not a local there. However, when reading the AIP (ENR 5.2-1) these airspaces read to me as restricted areas when activated. During activation I would not just cross these areas but try getting a clearance to cross.
The AIP states:
“ATC will ensure by tactical radar vectoring that the prescribed minimum distance between the Military-used Training Areas and the GAT traffic and for the OAT traffic not participating in the military exercise will not be infringed.
Within the MTAs the military control unit is responsible for ATC.
The occasionally (timely) affected route segments can be planned unrestrictedly during utilization of the Military Training Areas (as defined in ENR 5.2-3 to ENR 5.2-4) unless a FUA restriction is activated and a flight plan change becomes necessary. The activation of the MTAs do normally not generate any ATFCM (Air Traffic Flow and Capacity Management) measures. In case of tactical denial of MTA crossing, an average extension of
approximately 10 – 15 NM of the originally filed flight plan has to be expected.
Maybe that helps.
Check
then check NOTAMS.
Wien Info on 124,4 can give you a real-time headsup or switch you to Mil Radar for crossing.
Depending on airspace altitude, when active, the MTMA are E, D or C.
It’s straightforward, they are only a factor when active, contrary to the stupid german practice of ED-R which are always active unless deactivated by NOTAM.
contrary to the stupid german practice of ED-R which are always active unless deactivated by NOTAM.
Just a little correction – that is not 100% correct. Activation times are published in AIP and, in case of irregular usage of a restricted area, activated by NOTAM.
You statement is correct with regard to a temporary deactivation of a restricted area which normally is always active (hence relatively rare).
Snoopy wrote:
Wien Info on 124,4 can give you a real-time headsup or switch you to Mil Radar for crossing.
That is the issue we did fly around LOGO and it was impossible to reach Wien Info below the 7500ft given for the MTAs. I did check the airspace use plan and notams so as they where supposed to be inactive we did climb and could reach Wien Info for an IFR pickup only between 9000ft and 10000ft.
Marcel wrote:
However, when reading the AIP (ENR 5.2-1) these airspaces read to me as restricted areas when activated.
Yes I read the same part of the AIP, unfortunately it is not very clear. I understand VFR traffic can cross but IFR is vectored around a bit like the Danish military training areas or German danger areas. In AIP ENR 5.1 where they talk about restricted areas the text is very clear and precise on what is not allowed so I wonder if 5.2 would not be the same if anything was actually prohibited. Maybe we have someone from Austrocontrol here who knows.
Marcel wrote:
@snoopy
contrary to the stupid german practice of ED-R which are always active unless deactivated by NOTAM.Just a little correction – that is not 100% correct. Activation times are published in AIP and, in case of irregular usage of a restricted area, activated by NOTAM.
That is true but the consequences of ED-R violations in Germany are so severe that in the end one does not want to fly through one unless ATC or FIS did say on tape a few minutes before it is not active. Who knows if they just revised the AIP and you do not have the very latest version etc. Regarding the ED-R Germany really goes crazy. Better fly through Frankfurt CTR without a clearance than fly in an ED-R in the middle of nowhere, legal consequences in Frankfurt will be less severe.
Is an MTA an ICAO airspace type? Can someone provide an ICAO reference?
This seems to be another of those gotcha’s in Europe with each country a) applying standard ICAO rules such as airspace types in different ways and b) inventing its own airspace types because they either can’t or won’t use the standardized types available. This MTA would seem to fit the definition of R-type airspace just fine. I see no issue with calling an area an MTA since it does communicate the usage of the airspace. But any airspace that has restrictions should be classified according to ICAO rules so that all international pilots know what to expect regarding entry regulations. That would avoid confusion as indicated by the questions here.
That is the issue we did fly around LOGO and it was impossible to reach Wien Info below the 7500ft given for the MTAs. I did check the airspace use plan and notams so as they where supposed to be inactive we did climb and could reach Wien Info for an IFR pickup only between 9000ft and 10000ft.
Isn’t this an issue all the times? you can’t talk to en-route information or controller for your pick up and you have to muddle through off-route
In Austria, you may need to reach 14kft before relaxing down…
I sent a request to Homebriefing / Austrocontrol help desk. Lets see what they say.
