Channel Crossing (merged thread)

Graham wrote:

My bet is that from 2,000 feet most of us wouldn’t even get a decent mayday call out.

True. Every foot matters and gives you more time.
My post was meant more along the lines of the outcome. Crossing cold water in singles below glide range and without a raft isn’t for me.

You definitely won’t get a radio call out for the first minute or two, because there will be

• some tens of seconds of realisation that something dramatic has happened
• some tens of seconds doing the standard steps (fuel pump on, change tanks, alternate air, cycle mixture lever…)
• waiting for some result
• setting 7700
• working out which way the wind is blowing (so you can land into wind)

At 6000ft, and about 20nm, the Dover Straits can just about (very marginally, probably not, given the time it takes to set up Vbg etc) be crossed in a PA28 within glide range

But I would not fly all that way just to achieve that, because there are loads of coastal airports where you are well out of glide range on approach and/or departure and there is nothing you can do, and IMHO burning another 50-100 quid in avgas to reach the Dover Straits is a disproportionate action. Especially if you have been flying over land for say half an hour or more, which in that area is possible at 5300ft, and then you continue over the water without changing any engine settings.

IMHO, reading UK social media, there are way too many people who live in a state of denial over the cost of a life raft, or are renting and can’t/don’t want to spend money on one (a 10kg raft is not easy to cart around, especially if you are already 3- or 4-up) and these people just take the chance. In aviation you should always have a Plan B.

The real solution is a twin, you are as happy at 500 feet as 5,000 feet – well fuel burn aside

In my Lake, I am pretty happy with 500ft, too. So I propose a second solution to low alt flights over water ;)

Peter wrote:

But I would not fly all that way just to achieve that

I said many many years ago that there was a fundamnetal flaw in our airspace. There is a reasonable amount of cross channel traffic and there jolly will should be a VFR corridor specifically assigned between Lydd and the Fench coast at a sensible height – it is of fundamental importance to perceived safety.

The problem with my argument is constructing a demonstrable case. I cant recall the last ditching on that crossing? Clearly the risk is very small.

On the hand there is a corridor to the CIs, which whilst not in especially defined airspace, recognises the perceived need of VFR traffic.

Whether or not a safety case can be made, corridors such as this seem a reasonable idea and I dont suppose would cause London to much inconvenience, although I have no doubt they would resist having pesky VFR traffic boxed into a corridor in class A with the perceived risk of straying outside the corridor.

The corridor would only need to be 6,500 from the FIR to the Dungeness coast.

pistonfever wrote:

I understand the challenges of crossing VFR but how are you guys not terrified of the cold sea?

Being terrified isn’t the answer. Being prepared is.

Living on a small island I have basically no choice if I want to go anwhere.

However, there are certain factors to be borne in mind:

• the only aircraft that have ditched (as opposed to crashed out of control) in the sea in the last 15 years between where I live in the IOM and UK/Eire have been light twins funnily enough. One ran out of fuel, and the other had a rather unfortunate prop governor failure on one engine, then picked up induction ice in the other while diverting to Blackpool. There were no injuries in either case. I know the pilot of the latter case and she said she didn’t even have enough time to get into the raft before the rescue helicopter arrived. Studies also show the egress rate from ditching is pretty much as good as it is from forced landings on land – in other words, if you arrive under control, you’ll likely get out fine. Ditching is probably more survivable than a forced landing over some parts of the Lake District, where the terrain is not particularly forgiving. All the other planes from the IOM that have ended up in the sea in the last 15 years have been high energy impacts after a loss of control (an almost new Baron went in in IMC while on an IFR flight plan, and a couple of single engine planes have gone in after a in-flight loss of control in IMC).

• These are not ‘blue water’ operations. They are some of the busiest shipping routes in Europe.

• The engines are not “badly” put together – while they are a bit agricultural, they do have an acceptably long MTBF so long as you keep fuel flowing to them.

• My aircraft has a very low landing speed, reducing the amount of energy to dissipate on touch down.

• We wear life jackets on any over water trip. I also have a raft which is serviced annually.

• IMC is by far a bigger factor in planes going into the sea around here, or near IMC. Unfortunately a risk that an inexperienced pilot likes to take is to launch from here when the weather isn’t very good, on the assumption that there are no hills to crash into if you scud run across the sea. However, even if you’re not in the clouds, if the visibility isn’t great and the grey cloud blends into the grey sea, once you’re out of sight of land there can be very few visual references, and people have lost control in what’s technically VMC this way. It is NOT at all like scud running over land. All of the fatal accidents from the Isle of Man into the Irish Sea have been loss of control, the most recent a Commander 114 a couple of years ago, where the pilot lost control near Blackpool.

Still, the overwater bit is the least favorite parts of any flying trip I do but unfortunately they are inevitable if I ever want to go somewhere.

@Peter, what chart is that you are using? It does, as you say seem ambiguous if not downright confusing in the Calais area.
Fortunately the latest IGN 1:500,000 charts are clearer in that region. These charts have gradually changed over the last few years but not always for the better. There is a lack of differentiation on the latest chart between CAP airfields and restricted airfields so one needs to check the AIP charts more thoroughly than in the past. It has recently caught out several people making local flights.

It is the 2018 UK CAA 1:500k chart.

The new 2019 which I have on the wall is here:

I think people don’t bother about this because when flying UK to France one is always talking to French ATC and they “take care of it the French way”

My PPL theory book said that 1 minute’s flight at 120kt = 3 hours swimming, so as high as possible the crossing to Corsica at FL95 one way and FL85/105 the other.

There’s class A around southern UK that forces VFR lower, and an annoying narrow bit at FL55 directly between Southampton and Alderney. In fact Jersey once repeatedly told me to “remain clear of the airway” because I didn’t know what they meant by “airway” (if they’d said “class A” I’d have got it first time) :/ UK to Channel Islands, ATC have been good in my experience, with a stepped descent on arrival, then granting a climb on the return.

Flying flight levels VFR seems to slightly confuse London Information

Going to/from Calais/Le Touquet I deliberately fly over the water to avoid the class A south of Gatwick… I just feel happier at 5000’ off the coast, rather than 2000’ over land. Lifejackets, but no raft.

Realising one has to request transit of airspace in the UK was a steep learning curve for me

IGN 500,000 map below, not because it helps, but because it shows the Eurotunnel as a surface feature which I really like

In my Lake, I am pretty happy with 500ft, too. So I propose a second solution to low alt flights over water ;)

@mh, what would you estimate would be the limiting sea state (height of waves, and the corresponding wind, say 10nm away from any land) for your seaplane?

because it shows the Eurotunnel as a surface feature which I really like

The exact location of the tunnel is supposed to be top secret, for obvious reasons

Realising one has to request transit of airspace in the UK was a steep learning curve for me

You would not want to be learning that lesson today… I heard the other day that two people who clipped a corner of some Class D, and with no previous record, were sent straight to the £400 Gasco course.

@mh how high do you fly in land? I doubt 500ft is good to prepar a seaplan for a ground ditching ;)