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PA46 Malibu N264DB missing in the English Channel

I am happy crossing the Channel, but then I 100% permanently carry a life raft, and the flight is in daylight, and 5000ft minimum (FL100 when IFR).

At night it would be something else; the Plan B (a life raft, and if possible ditching near some vessel) is not really realistic.

In any case I would not fly a plane (other than on a trivial local) which is less than fully functional in the flight controls department. So e.g. I have a full set of autopilot spares.

That said, engine failures (other than due to empty tanks) and resulting ditchings are extremely rare.

I don’t think the night flight was the biggest risk in this case. It was the pilot’s limitations, and lack of knowledge/currency on type.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

I don’t think the night flight was the biggest risk in this case.

Yes and no. Night VFR planned at a level where any amount of cloud are forecast — even FEW — is a really bad idea as you can’t see the clouds until you’re already in them.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

I agree, but this was clearly not going to be a VFR flight

METAR EGJA 211820Z 19011KT 9999 SCT010 06/05 Q1018=
METAR EGJA 211750Z 19011KT 9999 -RA BKN010 06/05 Q1019 RERA=
METAR EGJA 211720Z 19012KT 9999 RA BKN013 06/04 Q1019=
METAR EGJA 211650Z 19011KT 9999 BKN015 06/03 Q1020=
METAR EGJA 211620Z 20010KT 9999 BKN018 06/03 Q1020=

TAF EGJA 211412Z 2115/2124 21017KT 9999 FEW015 BKN040
TEMPO 2116/2119 -RA BKN015=

Anybody who thinks they can go VFR in the above is smoking something pretty strong.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

but this was clearly not going to be a VFR flight

By day over land it is the kind of weather, I would be happy to fly low VFR OCAS locally, for A to B trip low VFR with some CAS crossings that will be a very long shot indeed even over land by day, you start to see sirens after 1h of that kind of flying and it always end up badly just a matter of how long it takes to lose control on flying or get lost on navigation including experienced pilots

Over open water by night inside CAS that kind of weather should be irrelevant: one would will just fly high and IFR, especially for a SEP, unless you are pushed down by ice (this turns out not to be the case), thinking that the day forecast did allow “3h of hand flying VFR” is a big pilot error IMO: the forecast was even worse than the actual observations

My gut feeling, the outcome would have been the same low VFR by day in that kind of weather: probably more chances of quick SAR response but I doubt you will come alive from the LoC…

Last Edited by Ibra at 27 Feb 14:43
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

An autopilot is maybe ‚the‘ most useful equipment in an airplane. Why anybody would not want to use it, let alone not learn how to use one that’s installed, is totally beyond me

Safe landings !
EDLN, Germany

Peter wrote:

The Night Qualification is an interesting one. If you have an EASA PPL without the NQ, and get a 61.75 piggyback FAA PPL, you can, I believe, fly an N-reg at night – because every FAA PPL has a NQ as standard (with rare exceptions mentioned earlier). This is an obscure interpretation and also touches on PA46 type ratings and such like.

Based on this “view” from FAA counsel link local copy

It seems from an FAA point of view he was appropriately licensed for night VFR flight, assuming his physical license did not have a “no night flight” restriction. This view even mentions that AAIB has gotten this wrong before…

Last Edited by Ted at 27 Feb 16:29
Ted
United Kingdom

WarleyAir wrote:

s it possible for boots to deploy ‘asymmetrically’ and what would the consequences be ?

I think in the type I operate the most, they deploy sequentially, not at the same time. So indeed, they deploy asymmetrically for thefirst (dozen or so) seconds.

ELLX

assuming his physical license did not have a “no night flight” restriction

and indeed a UK issued PPL doesn’t actually say “cannot fly at night” on it.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Ted wrote:

Based on this “view” from FAA counsel link local copy

It seems from an FAA point of view he was appropriately licensed for night VFR flight, assuming his physical license did not have a “no night flight” restriction. This view even mentions that AAIB has gotten this wrong before…

Yes, but of course that doesn’t mean you should fly at night.

EGTK Oxford

‘Night’ is a tricky thing in this configuration. The FAA does not know any ‘Night Rating’, it is included in their PPL syllabus. But, with a piggyback 61.75 license based on foreign, all restrictions of the EASA license apply. The EASA PPL does not include ‘Night’, it is a separate rating and the pilot has been told to have none ‘Night’, due to color vision problems. EASA Part.FCL PPL will not say ‘no night flight’ as restriction, it always need ‘Night’ as positive rating. There was indeed some confusion with the latest IR changes, where certain Aviation Agencies forgot to put explicitly ‘Night’ on the license, as there was no ‘no Night’ for IR before.

Last Edited by at 27 Feb 17:11
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