I wonder if those are the same messages in the link in this post.
The other end of the messages is said to be a “Player Liaison Officer at the Premier League club”. Since you can run the whatsapp client only on 1 phone (and Sala’s phone is presumably lost) plus 1 other device (but you cannot set that up without access to the phone, and anyway almost nobody is aware of this option) they are very unlikely to have got them from any other party but him.
Ibra wrote:
I still wonder what kind of training/licence one needs to do that specific flight profile safely?With the PA46 in order and the pilot proficient on type, just a PPL+IR. Essentially SKC in Nantes, turn the pressurization on, climb to FL250, A/P on, enjoy. Oh, right, that’s not the same profile.
Arne wrote:
With the PA46 in order and the pilot proficient on type, just a PPL+IR. Essentially SKC in Nantes, turn the pressurization on, climb to FL250, A/P on, enjoy. Oh, right, that’s not the same profile.
Arne, I think even EIR should be enough… IF Nantes and Cardiff eather is OK.
Arne wrote:
turn the pressurization on
Actually there’s nothing to turn on, it just starts to pressurise above a certain cabin altitude, so it’s even simpler.
arj1 wrote:
Arne, I think even EIR should be enough… IF Nantes and Cardiff eather is OK.
Assuming that aircraft has an AP (it was not ice, one engine that brought it down), I tend to think that an IMC rating or even vanilla PPL with enough instrument/night currency should be enough (less sure about night), assuming one is happy to require assistance, turn back or divert?
I will not lunch in that forecast weather by night (under any rating) but I would be happy to fly in the reported actual weather by day with an IMC rating or just a PPL…
You may find that the only guys who will go for that kind of flying profile are helicopter pilots doing maritime SAR or surveillance in say a Bell205 with 4 foots on the rudders (even those will not wonder that much in deep sea by night for that long)
Ibra wrote:
I will not lunch in that forecast weather by night (under any rating)
The weather was not that bad – I believe it has been repeated several times in this thread. Looking at the wreckage (and having seen quite few aircraft wrecks under the sea) I can only conclude that the aircraft hit the surface with high energy – definitely no ditching was tried. That means probably steep spiral dive which points to losing orientation in IMC.
The chap asked for descent for a reason ….. and that wouldn’t be a cruise descent to land at Cardiff.
I was referring to en-route forcast weather: it was very steep IMO for any sort of VFR/IFR low level flying (TAF at 5pm before accident was hardcore IMC with SCT004, BKN012 and risk of rain while UK met office did issue a “severe icing” warning)
Yes, the actual weather turns out to be somehow lighter, but still the pilot did launch based on the TAF? Maybe PA46 is well equipped for 3h in that TAF at 5000ft?
If I launch in that TAF (with no live METAR or day light), I will be flying like a maniac running out of real or imagined ice…
Yes, but IMC is IMC. Once you are not a virgin anymore, it doesn’t really matter what more you get up to 
Once you are departing “VFR” at a filed 5000ft into a known BKN012, you are gonna be in IMC and you are gonna be illegal and you will know it.
But that’s “OK” because as I say VFR in IMC is the world’s second oldest profession Not just in the UK but also in other places, notably Germany where cloud doesn’t officially exist below the vectoring altitude (pilots there I have known call it “IVFR”).
What then matters is what (if any) nasties are hiding in there. And a quick and dirty look at the wx didn’t suggest any real nasties, except potential airframe ice (IMC and roughly -5C = likely ice) and a fully functioning (that may be a big assumption here) PA46 flown by a pilot who knows which knob does what (another big assumption) should be able to cope with that.
Or declare a mayday and climb to FL150 and get out of it. The tops weren’t that high. But declaring a mayday would draw attention, which would not have been desired. Also, IMHO, most UK PPLs would not declare a mayday even if the flight was 100% legal and even if they were about to die. So a descent to ~2000ft was the other option, but most likely this pilot was hand flying (because the autopilot was not working, or because he didn’t know how to turn it on) and he could not hand fly in IMC, so he lost control and crashed. A PA46 will go through Vne in tens of seconds, or less.
I am fairly sure this is what happened. Some details would have been useful to know e.g. were the de-ice boots working. That’s why the wreckage should have been salvaged.
There must be other individuals / maintance companies who knew what ‘snags’ (small or large) N264DB had (INOP systems etc.)
Will this sort of information be ‘sub-judice’ ATPIT, or simply best kept quite and not discussed unless officially asked ?
