The Alps claim another one: Commander 112 D-ELPO (and cost sharing/advertising discussion)

boscomantico wrote:

Whether one works for free or for 20 Euros an hour (like in many other places in Europe) does not make much difference. Your motivation must come from elsewhere.

Over here it usually comes from either hope for hour building before an airline job, or from extra money to go on top of an army pension; that said, not that few actually like the job and stick to it even when they make RHS, or even LHS at an airline. For context, I am talking about a club setting, where raw profit is not a primary driver, and not about a 0-to-hero cadet factory (where I’ve seen instructors happy with their job as well!).

mdoerr wrote:

The plane was equipped with an ADL, I‘m not sure whether he renewed the subscription or not. I gave the information to him

At those altitudes it could probably have gotten the weather via ground-based cellular data in the phone app, too. I have to start remembering to use it.

Peter is right though. This wasn‘t a five-hour flight where the accident happened after four hours.
If he had made a proper assessment of the weather just before departure, he would likely have known that one hour later, he would run into trouble flying at 10000 feet. So not really a good example for the use case of an ADL.

maxbc wrote:

I feel it’s as (in)expensive as when I initially started 10 years ago.

Well, I am a tiny bit older than that and did my PPL in 1983 and my CPL IR in the end of the 1980ties, where the whole thing came up to maybe 25k CHF in terms of tuition, flight time (training only) and theory. Today you will talk of 100k or more for the lot and about 20k for the PPL alone. Even with inflation corrected, I’d think conservatively we are talking of double or closer to tripple.

So the very idea that you’d include trips abroad for folks to learn the ropes is a bit scetchy, as in those airplanes we’d be talking of 20 hours plus for a single such trip. In the CPL syllabus of the time however, flights abroad did exist as I found out about 1 week before my CPL/IR checkride, when it turned out that for the CPL I had to do a flight with my instructor to land outside the country. We chose to fly to Stuttgart and back by the way of La Chaux de Fons, as we also needed one landing and take off higher than 1000 m AMSL. I also remember that during theory we did quite a lot of planning flights abroad, such as alpine crossings with drift down procedures for our MEP’s, we had a lecture about the Italian airspace south of us which at the time was a major VFR roadblock on the way to the Med and quite a portion of our IFR training happened in France, because at the time, airports like Bron or Clermont Ferrand were 24/7 and you could do night landings there to your hearts desire. I recall arriving over Avignon in my lowly C150 one night at about 2am IFR from Perpignan after having been held up by something or the other. PPR was totally unknown there at the time.

Of course that is ancient history now and the mere bloatings of an old f-rt. But as a matter of fact, browsing through the offerings of several flight schools and clubs here, they do offer “post graduate” events for PPL’s such as fly outs to places all over Europe for people to be able to do such trips in a group and learn how it’s done. I think that is a pretty good way to do that.

The plane was equipped with an ADL

It was just dead weight unfortunately, he never used it.

Steve6443 wrote:

Previously the wording was when “cost sharing”, the pilot had to pay an EQUAL share of all others, which is why I’ve been a bit miffed about pilots on Wingly blatantly advertising flights to (eg) St Mary on The Scilly Isles with an aircraft flight time of 2 hours each way where the total advertised cost the passengers are expected to pay would be the full cost of the flight plus some in reserve, probably for landing fees or stronger winds aloft, effectively the pilot is getting his flying hours funded for him by strangers – i.e. he is making commercial gains.

AFAIK the EASA regs have never required an equal share, so unequal shares have been legal since the first EASA Basic Regulation (in 2009, I think).

But I thought that Wingly required an equal share for the pilot?

So to reinstate what I said – unless you were in the flight deck of those biz jets – it´s hard to know what details they had at hand.

@Yeager thanks for the explanation. I’m pretty sure what they had and what they didn’t have because they didn’t have any means of getting recent weather info (no roaming on mobile phones, no iPad, airport WiFi down) and I gladly helped them with the update.

172driver wrote:

For crying out loud: that guy advertised this as if it was an airline flight!

Advertising is one thing but I get the feel that this was also his self image. Has anybody seen the advert on plane check for the plane? It’s now obviously gone but it said that he only sells the plane because he is upgrading to a multi engine plane for improved passenger capability.

Mobile data is very random.

N and S of the Alps, at 10k, you might get a brief connection every 30-60 mins.

Over the Alps it gets a lot better.