Twin Comanche F-BPIR lands in an urban area (approaching LFPN)

There was a big article about this crash in the last InfoPilote. I did not get a chance to read it yet (as I don’t have the subscription), will be sure to update when I do.
If others have more info don’t hesitate ! @Jujupilote @gallois @Capitaine

I think most of what the article said was covered here by @Capitaine. The only thing missing was the photo of the wreck which I found interesting.

maxbc wrote:

There was a big article about this crash in the last InfoPilote

And, any news about that “uncommanded flame-out of both engines” (as ASN calls it)?

maxbc wrote:

I did not get a chance to read it yet

Here you go @maxbc : scanned article

Thank you so much !

The exact location of the crash is confirmed. There’s not much about the cause of the crash, but a few additional details:

• the first engine stopped around 4000ft
• the time between the two engine failures is fairly short: the student flying started executing the OEI checklist correctly, but apparently did not even have time to finish it before the second engine shut down
• a restart attempt was performed with a tank switch and pump ON.

This looks a lot like a fuel problem (starvation or contamination). Perhaps starvation is more likely since one would think contaminated fuel would have made the engine run rough first. Maybe a problem in the refilling process? Does the aircraft have an absolute (and reliable) fuel gauge, or does it rely on a totalizer? (which could be erroneous from the ground)
With 45min reserve (plus alternate), it’s hard to see how so much fuel could be missing.

Anyway, great advice from Trimaille:

• keep in control of the situation, don’t think you’re screwed and give up
• keep FLYING: stay well away from stall while trying to minimize impact
  And it is indeed confirmed that boulevard Maxime Gorki was available, more suitable to land, but discarded because of potential numerous collateral victims (packed traffic cars).

maxbc wrote:

This looks a lot like a fuel problem (starvation or contamination)

Forgot to lean? Who leans anyway in training environment? I said it in the beginning, the TwinCo has 6 tanks plus crossfeed option. The system itself is rather simple from a technical point of view and very good working. But you have to remember to select the correct tank(s).

Both engines out within a minute sounds odd, but it happened before. I read about a case about a Piper Seminole in England that went down for the exact same reason. Fuel empty. Both engines died within less than a minute. Plane went down on final approach (I think the only person on board survived). This surely happened more than once before.

great advice from Trimaille

All known stuff (B. Hoover and co)… the best advice might be in the coming, who knows.

The fuel system on the Piper Seminole is only 2 tanks which you can cross feed. It’s very simple.
I think on the Twinkie part of the procedure for an attempted restart is to check across the different fuel tanks and Trimaille certainly has experience on that aircraft.
I am also doubting that there was not enough fuel on board unless the pump was in and nothing was coming out or there was some sort of leak which emptied all tanks.
My guess is that the cause of a double engine failure has something to do with ice.
But I do think we need to wait for the BEA report before jumping to conclusions.

Dan wrote:

All known stuff (B. Hoover and co)… the best advice might be in the coming, who knows.

I know, but as always (given what happens in many other cases) maybe not repeated enough :)