Timothy wrote:
I am not a psychopath, but I appreciate the suggestion. It’s great to have these discussions in the spirit of just culture, rather than the name calling and smearing that people are decrying.
@Timothy, I certainly did not want to imply that you are a psychopath. My sincerest apologies if it came out that way. The “you” was not intended to refer to you but to people in general.
My comment was due to the fact that psychopaths lack empathy and thus are likely to care more about what happens to them than what happens to other people.
The confusing bit is that even if I were a psychopath, I’d probably still say I wasn’t 
The engineer is not on board of the aircraft at the time of the crash, though.
If a pilot does something foolish, and gets away with it, then education and/or punishment may help.
If a pilot does something foolish and does not get away with it, additional education or punishment is futile, but the knee-jerk reaction is that the punshment should be more severe.
I will use a personal example – I wrote separately of me landing in a field in France in bad weather, and the French authorities asking for a prosecution. I am pretty sure that, when deciding not to do so, the German authorities at the time asked themselves “did he learn his lesson”, decided I had and moved on. I hope had they come to the conclusion that I hadn’t, that they would have chosen education over penalty – because the opposite, broadcasting that landing in a field for safety reasons can land you in court, would maybe deter people from flying in bad weather, but is also likely to deter people from doing the safe thing, killing themselves in the process.
A just culture is about learning from mistakes, educating the slow learners, and reserving punishment for those who don’t want to learn, or acr deliberately. And making it clear that this is the hierarchy of priorities
Timothy wrote:
I fear that the answer is yes. For example, if you talk to an engineer about cutting corners on maintenance, the answer will more often be “I don’t want to risk my licence” than “it is not safe.”
Large cultural variations here, and the number of people with licence issues is proportional to the level of detailed bureaucracy that exist. It starts with some bureaucrat that has a “vision” of “zero accidents” or “zero deaths” or “zero pollution” or zero anything. This sparks off new and detailed laws and regulations, how else is the “zero vision” supposed to be reached. And there you have it, a bureaucratic tyranny that alienates all individual thought and and shatters all sense of individual responsibility.
But the reason forthe answer may also be more social stuff. Do you really want the mechanic to be concerned about your safety, especially when you are in a hurry, or low on cash? He gives you the easy and untouchable answer instead.
LeSving, that is an excellent post. Freedom to manage risks of all kinds without undue interference, and freedom from feel good nonsense used as an excuse for tyranny, is without a doubt the most important thing in my life.
I couldn’t agree more.
As to the accident that’s being discussed here. On another forum (Pprune, professional part) it has been suggested quite plausibly that AH might have flown the correct numbers – but in the wrong aircraft. Apparently the entry height and speed as well as the height on top of the loop correspond exactly to the values you would expect from a Jet Provost, which he used to display regularly. I don’t have any reference to hand, but recall car accident statistics that show that a vast number of accidents happen during a routine drive, e.g. school run, drive to office, etc, especially when there was some sort of change to the routine on that route (road works, detour, new road layout). Memory can be a dangerous thing…..
LeSving wrote:
Large cultural variations here, and the number of people with licence issues is proportional to the level of detailed bureaucracy that exist. It starts with some bureaucrat that has a “vision” of “zero accidents” or “zero deaths” or “zero pollution” or zero anything. This sparks off new and detailed laws and regulations, how else is the “zero vision” supposed to be reached. And there you have it, a bureaucratic tyranny that alienates all individual thought and and shatters all sense of individual responsibility.
Best post I’ve ever read from you. Thanks, yes, that is exactly what happens all the time.
Let’s all remember though that excessive or permissive regulatory regimes do not excuse us from personal responsibility for the decisions we make. If we make gross errors and people die then consequences are inevitable and fair IMHO.
You do not satisfy your personal responsibilities by obeying laws. That’s why there are criminal and civil courts.
Silvaire,
Could you please expand that thought.
