Snoopy wrote:
Very true. Assuming the weather had something to with it: Do you think that this pilot was so very different to any of us?
I would at least think (and hope!) that I’m different. Seriously – would I launch into that kind of wx? No. VFR? No f•••ing way! It’s not that this was a totally unforecast situation, a quick look at the wx must have shown a total no-go for any light GA airplane on that route.
What keeps us from meeting the same fate?
Hopefully being more realistic about our and our airplanes’ capabilities.
But if it is so easy why is this happening so frequently?
Perhaps because too many people confuse hoping and praying with preparing and planning…..
Snoopy wrote:
Do you think that this pilot was so very different to any of us?
My comment was not directed at this particular incident.
But a general comment on the notion that training is an answer to mistakes pilots make. Most of the time it’s not about knowledge/training, IMHO but about judgement and decision making.
Common sense and risk taking are as much part of a personality as about knowing what can happen and why to avoid it. If a person is a risk taker and likes to push the envelope they will eventually meet self-fulfilling fate of destruction….such people are easy to spot. They are the ones that question the placarding on the plane, or knowingly fly overloaded, or scud run, or let a time table override a weather decision, or carry the dangerous attitude of ‘it can’t happen to me.’
Snoopy wrote:
Thats probably what someone told him. Didnt work out!
Might very well be. I can imagine the sales pitch.
Flyer59 wrote:
a SR20-G3 has such exquisite avionics that will fly you through 75 percent of all weather
What a dangerous attitude and statement. Avionics don’t fly you through ANY weather. Actually avionics don’t fly you, period. And if you are unfamiliar with a glass cockpit, it can be as exquisite as you want, it will increase your workload.
a SR20-G3 has such exquisite avionics that will fly you through 75 percent of all weather.
The SR20 is a VFR airplane with limited IFR capability
Really?
@Rwy20
Is it a secret to you that modern avionics and autopilots are installed to reduce the pilots workload. These airplanes are mostly flown on autopilot IFR and of course you fly on autopilot in IMC normally. Of course i did not mean VFR pilots should do that!
@Peter
200 hp, limited payload, no anti ice system available) not even the prop – i would not call that a real IFR airplane. Of course it is flown IFR in the summer, but in our context i’d call it a very comfortable VFR airplane for two people. Maybe Snoopy is right here when he says that it’s tempting to think the SR20 is something almost like the 22, and maybe the very comfortable avionics can lead you to decide “to try it” …
But the 22 with 310 hp can pull you out of the soup and on top easily in many situations, and even the normal full TKS can do a great job when crossing layers of light to moderate icing. But i would never try severe icing …
Now if it really “happens” to you (i am not a big fan of the “happens” theory, i am sure it does not if you turn around early) and you are over land the CAPS system can (and has) save you. With severe icing over the North Sea – you rob yourself of that last survival tool aswell, because you will not survive the cold water for long. And this guy probably never “pulled” anyway but crashed….
I would say a case of “getnewairplanehomeitis”.. wife was waiting at airfield.
It was, btw, the former CEO of a known german company, CLAAS. 76 years old, has been flying for 12 years, in his Cessna, with his wife, around the Mediterranean a lot, i heard.
Speculation: not aware of how much of a killer the North Sea can be in the winter, for a VFR pilot anyway.
Flyer59 wrote:
Is it a secret to you that modern avionics and autopilots are installed to reduce the pilots workload. These airplanes are mostly flown on autopilot IFR and of course you fly on autopilot in IMC normally.
Tell me more about this “autopilot” thing. I always wondered what these HDG, NAV etc. buttons would do. Maybe I can learn from you.
Rwy20 wrote:
Actually avionics don’t fly you, period
In the Cirrus SR22 the Garmin GFC 700 autopilot is as sophisticated as the equipment found in a large commercial jet.
- Fully Coupled Approaches with Vertical Guidance
- TOGA Button with Coupled Missed Approach & Holds (flys full precision approaches down to DA)
- Electronic Stability & Protection (prevents unusual attitudes)
- Hand-flown Stall Protection though ESP
- Hypoxia Check & Automated Descent Mode (audible pilot awareness check – lack of response plane descends to safe oxygen level)
- Blue Level Button (rights the plane with the push of a button)
- Autopilot Stall and Over-speed Protection (pushes the nose down when stall detected/prevents engine over-revving at enough altitude)
- Flight Director and Flight Path Marker
There is also terrain awareness and synthetic vision and two types of collision avoidance.
USFlyer wrote:
He is referring to the autopilot
a SR20-G3 has such exquisite avionics that will fly you through 75 percent of all weather
In the Cirrus SR22 the Garmin GFC 700 autopilot is as sophisticated as the equipment found in a large commercial jet.
I know that quite well having done my IR training on a plane with that autopilot. The plane that is the topic of this thread had an S-TEC 55X, and was flown by a VFR pilot with no prior Cirrus experience. If he took off on this journey because he read somewhere on the Internet (or someone had told him) that “a SR20-G3 has such exquisite avionics that will fly you through 75 percent of all weather”, that attitude may well have been the final nail in his coffin.
If he took off on this journey because he read somewhere on the Internet (or someone had told him) that “a SR20-G3 has such exquisite avionics that will fly you through 75 percent of all weather”
I have already answered that my quote “will fly you through 75 percent of all weather” was not meant for VFR pilots. But of course you can ignore that and always repeat the same sentence …
You underestimate people. While he made a fatal mistake, that guy had a PPL for 12 + years and had flown across Europe many times in his Cessna. He was a former CEO of a pretty big german company before, and: I have talked to him on the phone and he told me he would only fly home after completing the ten hours of official transition training (but I cannot know what he really did).
He made a mistake, and he paid the highest price for it. Not more to know. Had he talked to me I would have told him to back to the hotel and have a beer.
