hazek wrote:
So VFR flight plans are checked by someone.Indeed, at least when you file via regular AIS offices, like DFS, Skyguide, AustroControl, LVNL, Avinor etc. Had similar cases in the past as well. Not sure if this applies to EuroFPL / Skydemon too though.
Long previous thread on why a FP does not normally do PNI was talking about full international airports here, not about all other kinds of PoE, where PPR/PNR is required. I do agree that an FPL is not in general a PNR to immigration or customs and especially not a PPR, but it does work for many international airports. That’s why I love using international airports when leaving or entering Schengen and/or EU soil. It works many times without any further PPR / PNR requirements, just file a FPL and go.
(Yes, I know that some countries still require GAR, Gendec etc. But it does work without any additional requirements in most European countries.)When I fly in Germany on a VFR flight plan, and I always do, because why not take advantage of a system that is there to serve me, often the FIS controller will ask me if it’s for a flight to my destination according to my flight plan before I give them anything but my call sign.Correct, this is the case since 1-2 years with Langen. Wien FIC even requires you to say “negative flightplan” upon initial call, as they do expect you to have one by default. And in Italy, Padova and Milano FIC knew last times also my routing already upfront and just wanted to know the ETA for my next waypoint.
AFAICT with Croatia, they are simply pragmatic and don’t actually care.That might be the case for Losinj or so, but definitely not for bigger airports like Pula. The lady who picked us up, drove us to the immigration booth based on our FPL information. She even confirmed that on-site. And Egelsbach does forward FPL details to customs. Got that confirmed on-site and by phone.
In my experience, and maybe this has changed and improved in recent years, but the more you treat your flight like an IFR flight in terms of dealing with ATC and controlled airspace and filing flight plans, the better your VFR outcome is. Of course I don’t mean fly by actual IFR rules, so hopefully it’s clear what I mean. And the more you don’t do that the more you’re treated like a glider basically bobbing around a little bit.
And I can offer only two data points. If you come to ELLX, to land you don’t need to do PPR. Only need a flight plan (parking is a different matter and you should call ahead). And in Maribor, also a controlled airport, you should call ahead even though that isn’t mandated in their AIP info otherwise they’ll be very angry with you, although thinking about it now, maybe this is also only if you’re going to park there for a while, which we did.
Anyway best practice is to always call or email, I mean it’s so easy to do, so why not?
hazek wrote:
the more you treat your flight like an IFR flight in terms of dealing with ATC and controlled airspace and filing flight plans, the better your VFR outcome is+1 That matches also my experience across (mainland) Europe.
Frans wrote:
+1 That matches also my experience across (mainland) Europe.
And it was your videos of doing exactly that that taught me this and I confirmed it through my own experiences! So thank you so much for that.
That’s 100% a you-problem.
@LeSving, responding to your comment above, my preference to fly (real) VFR is not a problem, for me or anybody else who can do it and enjoys it. However it is true that I could no more imagine my VFR flying limited to a kind of preplanned and filed quasi-IFR in which ATC contact and direction is mandatory than I could imagine doing the same with a motorcycle or car.
Peter wrote:
The Swedish case above is a new one. I am updating the original thread.
Sorry… I managed the classical mix up of customs and immigration.. What I wrote referred to customs – not immigration. If you are arriving from outside of the Schengen area you need to have you documents checked. I can’t find any specific rules about this in the AIP, so I assume that you have to fly to an airport of entry.
Hazek wrote:
If you come to ELLX, to land you don’t need to do PPR.
AIP 2.20 section 6
Except for cases listed in § 6.3, handling is mandatory
Handling requests must be sent at the latest 6 business hours prior to the flight (…) in order to obtain
a general aviation PPR.
I managed the classical mix up of customs and immigration
OK; in Europe there is no practical difference as far as the pilot and any passengers are concerned between C and I – with rare exceptions like NO and CH and the (EU) pilot citizenship issues which I have never researched but there is ample reading on EuroGA
With rare exceptions it is just one police officer (or two) doing everything.
Peter wrote:
OK; in Europe there is no practical difference as far as the pilot and any passengers are concerned between C and I – with rare exceptions like NO and CH
Ireland, Cyprus and Iceland are also exceptions.
True… but practically relevant? I don’t think so. C+I go together. And if not at one end, almost certainly at the other end.
The fact that you have free movement of goods but not people is irrelevant because the “vehicle” is what gets you if you p1ss off somebody badly enough.
