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EASA survey on the use of electronic collision warning and conspicuity systems

10 Posts

To be found here

EHLE / Lelystad, Netherlands, Netherlands

Done.

always learning
LO__, Austria

Done…

Dan
ain't the Destination, but the Journey
LSZF, Switzerland

Started and came to this question:

IMO these devices are mostly a nuisance in all airspaces. The only use I have experienced is when towing gliders (FLARM), and that has nothing to do with airspace. The option to answer “Not particularly useful in any airspace” is not there.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

Who is taking the survey and for what purpose?

I noted in my response that TOTAL coverage of all traffic is not really attainable, nor should it be the focus given that large birds won’t be equipping.

I haven’t flown without ADS-B IN and OUT since late 2019. It has completely revolutionized the ability to avoid other traffic, makes most ATC contact pointless for my purposes and is not ‘in development’ in the US, its the basic existing state of the art. Last weekend when I arrived at my base there were twelve aircraft in the runup area ranging in size from a Gulfstream jet (that was actually lined up and waiting for IFR release) to two yellow J-3 Cubs. In between in size and performance were three Buckers, three Stearmans, a Sling, a C-180 and a Marchetti SF 260. As they gradually departed a TB30, an RV8, an SNJ, another Cub, a Yak 52, an RV7 and several Cessnas, several Cherokees and a Bonanza filed in behind them and eventually left. When that tangle had cleared, finally the locally based P-51 showed up and departed. There was an off-airport event plus the usual training etc. traffic and the clouds cleared rapidly making everybody mount up and go simutaneously.

ADS-B can be quite helpful if you find yourself in that kind of a multi-performance pack and ATC voice communication is hopeless for traffic avoidance. It works and while it isn’t necessary in most airspace, where it is necessary I can’t see any reason to reinvent the wheel.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 26 Apr 23:01

No name or any clue as to identification… Normally one would not expect any response to such a survey.

Off topic posts moved here

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

It appears that this survey is by EASA, and quite incompetently they posted it on their obscure forum here which almost nobody reads, and even fewer respond to…

Thread title edited.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Such a shame that EASA went down the “mandatory” expensive Mode S route 10 years ago, instead of looking across the pond at the US going ADSB with the “TISB carrot”…

skydriller wrote:

Such a shame that EASA went down the “mandatory” expensive Mode S route 10 years ago, instead of looking across the pond at the US going ADSB with the “TISB carrot”…

I don’t think GA has been very high up on the agenda for EASA regarding this stuff, as with any other stuff As I understand it Mode S was already widely adopted by airlines, and is more or less? compatible with ADS-B (with input from a GPS). Obviously it’s the surveillance part that has been in focus, as well as lobbying by certain groups with specific interests. Which seems to be a typical thing with EASA. Suboptimal solutions due to internal interest groups, and GA is left out to try in the oddest of places.

Having said that, electronic collision warning systems for GA can be made super simple and cheap, based on cheap GPS and a radio. Surveillance systems by ATC cannot, and both ADS-B and Mode S are surveillance systems with strict performance criteria and certification.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

From various presentations and conferences I went to years ago, the UK Mode S scene was driven largely by NATS whose software people developed some slick code for managing holding stacks, and they were hoping to sell this to other countries.

GA was never a factor, and when GA started asking for TIS (traffic data over Mode S) they were told No way; the cost of the extra board and software licenses is 100k per ATC radar I visited NATS c. 2010 (re AFPEX) and was told there is no way to spend a single penny for GA unless there is a business case i.e. cost recovery.

ADS-B is more complicated; it isn’t doable with cheap aircraft boxes in the context of an ICAO compliant ATC service.

Doing the survey now. Some strangely ambiguous questions

I am not sure the writer was aware of what is on the market. It talks about getting airport opening hours via some airborne data route. There is no present or likely future means of doing that.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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