"European FBOs"

The phrase Fixed Base Operator originates from the age of barnstorming, when many US aviation businesses moved from place to place, selling rides etc. Shortly after, as US airport infrastructure started to grow, those businesses that sprung up at airports to sell fuel and fix aircraft were called FBOs because in contrast to barnstormers they didn't move. Most US FBOs are still small, a simple office and hangar plus a self-serve fuel pump. Usually there is one person in the office if they aren't out doing something around the airport. The fancy FBOs are an exception to the rule and not something a GA pilot needs to get involved with in the absence of a massive urge for warm chocolate chip cookies.

It's mostly easier to pump your own fuel with piston aircraft, and in fact when a company Lear 35 executive mailing tube goes cross country I am amused that they typically stop for gas at an airport with not much of an FBO, cracked tile in the bathroom plus unlocked door open to whoever happens along. The fees involved are zero, except for the fuel cost.

Re US airports being 'subsidised'... They are subsidised in the same way roads are subsidised... in other words, to me it's an odd description. Airports are basic 20th century infrastructure and laying down a mile of asphalt is a heck of a lot cheaper than building the many hundreds of miles of surrounding roads. That's actually why the airport infrastructure was created, pre interstate highways which were comparatively very expensive, and more or less modeled on the German Autobahnen.

My Q was how Bookworm's db(A) figure was determined.

The EASA list for light props shows you the limits as well as the values for certain configurations.

E.g. the PA30 is either 72.0 or 72.5 against a limit of 80.0 so would be -8.0 or -7.5

For the TB-20, the limits depend on whether you have a 1335 kg version (77.8) or a 1400 kg version (78.7). Without the hush kits it comes out typically at -4.7 or -4.9.

For the TB-20, the limits depend on whether you have a 1335 kg version (77.8) or a 1400 kg version (78.7). Without the hush kits it comes out typically at -4.7 or -4.9.

Many thanks BW - interesting.

AIUI -4.9db(A) is quieter than -4db(A) so what does this mean?

Why do I need the noise certificate, when that spreadsheet (which I have seen in a paper book form at a few places; Stuttgart comes to mind this year) shows that any version of a TB20 will be below the limit?

Or do different German or Swiss airports have different limits?

Why do I need the noise certificate, when that spreadsheet (which I have seen in a paper book form at a few places; Stuttgart comes to mind this year) shows that any version of a TB20 will be below the limit?

You seem to be asking why Germans love certificates. Political history is outside my area of expertise, but I've heard the credit being given to Bismarck more than once. :)

Forgot to mention in my previous post that also Salzburg Airport (LOWS) is an excellent if not cheap stopover.

With FBO do you mean something like that:

"Aircraft, crew and guests are all well taken care of.

The services we offer for pilots and aircraft range from diverse parking facilities, border control and customs clearance to the sale of tax-exempt fuel (JET A-1). Our tow vehicle can pull aircraft of up to 12 tonnes to any location on the airfield.

A pilots’ relaxation room with shower and TV, as well as a flight preparation room with the latest mapping material, internet access to METI and AIS, fax and telephone make it easy for pilots to prepare for their next flight.

Of course, free WLAN access is available in the terminal building.

We offer a flexible shuttle service for passengers and crew - on request directly from the apron.

Our services also include hotel reservations and transport arrangements, as well as coordinating catering.

Our comfortable lounge or the conference room in the terminal building are particularly suitable for small meetings, both with catering provided if desired."

???

This is form my home airport EDAZ (Schönhagen), close to Berlin.

Highly recomended.

But it has a noise dependent landing fee (like pretty much all German GA airports I know) and they will charge you the higher fee if you can not produce a document as proof. From the multitude of GA airports around the capital this is the most professional one.

Nevertheless, EDAY is probably even a bit more convenient with public transportation within walking distance, bringing you directly into the heart of the city for only €3, and also offering all basic facilities without extra charge.

Can someone be kind enough to tell me how we produce the certificate referred to please? Is the spreadsheet available anywhere?

thanks

You seem to be asking why Germans love certificates. Political history is outside my area of expertise, but I've heard the credit being given to Bismarck more than once. :)

Actually, the noise certificate is not a bad thing per se. When airports are under attack by locals in Germany, then often the solution is that the airport further encourages quiet airplanes. They might increase the landing fees for aircraft that are not in the quietest category, prohibit touch and go operations of noisy aircraft, not accept stationing such airplanes, etc. Neighbors usually accept the difference between quiet aircraft and noisy ones.

Those strict noise abatement rules are also the reason there are virtually no Tupolevs landing in Germany. Too bad, I always liked those.

For foreign aircraft, it's sometimes hard to establish the noise level. The easiest solution is to issue one for yourself using an FAA form you can download. Some airports have more or less correct lists. Sometimes you have to argue.