European (FCL) papers required for FAA instructors & examiners ?

An interesting angle. If that were a problem, then many people will not be able to get flight reviews now, as many CFIs in Europe are not EASA FIs.

This has come up before many times; even here though I can’t find most of the threads. It isn’t a problem in reality, unless somebody decides to create one.

There was for many years a JAA regulation that any remunerated training in Europe required a JAA CPL. That’s a full CPL, not just the CPL exams. This was used by the UK CAA to terminate a certain FAA training+checkride operation in the UK, c. 2005. The guy being prosecuted got away because he had a really amazing letter on the wall written by an “extremely junior” CAA person, but then when the court case failed the CAA still shut them down using the aforementioned CPL requirement (nobody there had a JAA CPL). This also refers. I saw the letter myself, and got the other info from someone working there (who was just out of a job when I bumped into him on the stairs, when I went there to sit the FAA IR written exam).

The famous Dennis Kenyon was also busted under this provision, for alleged remunerated training of a customer to whom he sold a helicopter. I met DK a few years ago; IIRC this is what happened. He pleaded Guilty. It was a grossly unfair prosecution and possible only because his customer (who wanted revenge for something) reported him to the CAA (nice of him ).

I vaguely recall this CPL requirement was removed at some point?? Certainly Euro FIs today have a general need only for CPL theory and LAPL FIs not even that. And FAA stuff is not “EASA” so probably ranks same as LAPL in the requirements.

Also common workarounds were

• not charging (I get my BFRs like that)
• charging for “ground school” only
• the candidate flies outside the local airspace and then they switch over who is PIC
• the flight is done in another country (this was done for years by one FAA “operation” over here, though I notice the office at a certain French airport is now closed; not going to have that discussion since the guy threatens legal action very readily)

However, the unstated implication is that if the instructor or examiner is not PIC then the above does not apply. So a BFR is OK (if FAA PPL not lapsed, or if candidate has a valid local PPL). Same with an IPC (it merely needs to be done in VMC conditions, etc). Also a) many FAA CFI/CFII guys do have Euro papers (I did a lot of my FAA CPL flying with two such) and b) most candidates can be PIC on their UK papers so they are PIC via 61.3… nearly everyone in Europe has a local PPL regardless of which reg plane they fly.

So whichever way you shake this, nothing illegal is being done because by the time you step through the above stuff, it is clearly ok. One thing which remains a real problem is doing a totally ab initio (candidate has no papers at all) FAA PPL in Europe (e.g. the US Student Pilot Certificate is not valid outside the US), so the only way is to pretend to embark on a Euro PPL, do the solo flights under that and then finish off appropriately… I think we did that debate before, but almost nobody is doing this in Europe, or ever was.

Can FAA DPE conduct PPL/IR check-rides without FE/TRE/CRE/IRE?

That has to be nonsense; those are totally different things being tested. The only possible requirement is the overriding possible one for an EASA CPL.

Also it has been argued that a DPE is a “representative of the US government” and checkrides were done under mutual agreement (e.g. US CFIs were doing JAA PPL training, and US DPEs were doing JAA PPL skills tests in Florida, etc, and the UK CAA approved all that).

It has also been argued that a DPE working in Europe needs to be either a resident, or have a working visa. This has reportedly been used to terminate visiting FAA DPEs coming to the UK, around 10 years ago. We did this a while ago too; I am sure this visa requirement is utter BS, because the working visa requirements exempt that sort of casual visit activity.

What the DGAC’s position is I have no idea… they turned a blind eye to certain US checkride operations for years, but that could be because in France a lot of stuff is OK unless you p1ss off somebody big and then the sky falls in. OTOH they may have been legal…

One CFI in France told me he can do my BFR but it has to be on trip to Jersey (he can no longer do them in France after June 2022, he holds DGAC PPL but his FI lapsed for ages)

IMHO this is BS but if you pressed him for proof he will prob99 walk away. This is such an obscure area, and he will not want to alert the DGAC.

Is this a side effect of the general requirement for “dual papers” when flying N-reg?

Is this a side effect of the general requirement for “dual papers” when flying N-reg?

It is much older. Goes back to 1999 or earlier.

Also not applicable anyway if the US person is not required to be PIC. Euro stuff works differently from US stuff. In the Euro system, the “instructor” is normally PIC even if the candidate is legally capable of being PIC (which is silly). In the US system, it is not like that, so training is logged as “PIC” if you have other papers which make that actual flight in the actual conditions legal.

The time when a CFI for example would need to be PIC is if the candidate had no license or no medical. In that situation he needs to reval his license with a local FI, first. But nowadays he needs dual papers anyway so all this is moot…

The time when a CFII for example would need to be PIC is in the above case, or no IR and the conditions require an IFR flight. This scenario is easily avoided, obviously. In the UK, the IMCR is valid in an N-reg, too.

The TRE stuff is silly. If you have a valid PPL (FAA or local) then you can fly an N-reg TBM on that, in VMC. The examiner or whatever is just a passenger.

Not for a passenger.