FAA IR time, and IMCR time, and whatever other time, towards "50hrs IFR PIC" for the CB-IR or BIR

AnthonyQ wrote:

Conspiracy theories notwithstanding, I believe the intention is that by having 50hrs of flying in the (European) IFR system you have demonstrated knowledge and experience of real-life IFR…I can see why the CAA would think that way…

Peter wrote:

Does the reg say where you have to do those 50hrs?

My question exactly as well.

I just checked the regs, and they do not require any flying in the European IFR system. The regs are exactly what has been quoted previously in this thread; 50 hours PIC under IFR.

That said, I believe there is a requirement for European flight experience when applying for an EASA license crediting flight experience obtained with a 3rd state license. Also, some experience flying in the European IFR system is certainly required in order to pass the skill test. Before I started flying IFR in Europe I had an instrument instructor explain the differences between flying US and EU IFR, which was very useful.

I meant to put a question mark after the word European in brackets btw….The point is that I think the intention the 50hrs should be real IFR flying…not cobbled together from training and IMCR hours…which makes sense to me.

That said, I believe there is a requirement for European flight experience when applying for an EASA license crediting flight experience obtained with a 3rd state license.

I haven’t seen that.

Also, some experience flying in the European IFR system is certainly required in order to pass the skill test.

IMHO nobody would have passed the JAA IRT (I did mine in 2012) without some local FTO training. Even little things like being expected to say “ice check, no ice” every 1000ft in climb or every 5 mins in cruise. And I had a very professional and reasonable examiner…

Before I started flying IFR in Europe I had an instrument instructor explain the differences between flying US and EU IFR, which was very useful.

Absolutely so. But there is no legal requirement for it.

I would also argue that the differences are minimal so long as you stick to pure IFR. The gotchas in Europe are in “quasi IFR” stuff like the infamous handover to “London 124.6” from France to UK and the silent trashing of your IFR clearance, and other manifestations of the Z and Y related issues.

VFR over here is a real mess and a real barrier to PPLs flying around Europe. The language issues are on top of that…

of course only flight hours on an IFR flight plan count toward the 50h

[my bold]

Where is this stated?

AFAIK e.g. the majority of say UK ATPL FTO training doesn’t involve a flight plan filed. It is done in Class G, as a VFR flight. IMC is normally avoided (icing risk in the winter, etc) and flight plans are not necessary until you go into Class A. Technically any flight in CAS requires a flight plan but this happens with a radio call.

Also the FAA IR training is normally logged as PIC – that is just how it is done over there. Even the PPL is done thus; you are flying from Day 1 on the privileges of the US Student Pilot Certificate which IIRC is normally issued (mine was) by the FAA AME on your first medical. What most people don’t know is that the SPC is not valid outside the USA which makes it hard to do an ab initio FAA PPL in Europe “legally” but that’s another story

The IR conversion states IFR as PIC and that is just flight in accordance with instrument flight rules, and you need to be PIC which means the 50hrs need to be done on the FAA IR or the UK IMCR.

As for practical training for European IFR, the best thing is to fly with an experienced pilot and do a few trips. Plan the trip with him/her and then fly it. It isn’t rocket science. Most of the work is playing with aircraft performance versus wx, and dealing with ATC who usually are very good but sometimes get difficult. All this stuff is almost totally divorced from what you learn on the Euro IR courses.

Recently I did this video for this purpose which includes the ATC exchanges

Peter wrote:

As for practical training for European IFR, the best thing is to fly with an experienced pilot and do a few trips.

Ditto, although as you say that won’t really help for the exam, as they are fairly disconnected (unless you get something very unexpected in the exam!)
The ATO I used trained me exactly for what they ask for the exam (and they told me they were training me “to get to the exam standard”, and that if I wanted, I could then do a couple of additional trips to learn “the real stuff”).
Thinks like IFR pick up (when leaving from uncontrolled airfield) / STAR into uncontrolled airfield are things I then learned on my own / asked /read around / practiced.
In the UK at least, it seems very unlikely you get given a SID or a STAR, even if out of a controlled airfield: The exam (and thus training) routes are very short (i personally think there is no value in having long legs, it gets your thinking complacent. short legs have you think all the time “what’s coming next” and be sharp).

if meanwhile my hours had been accepted. Unfortunately no

Do you mean that

• your solo hours under the FAA IR privileges were not accepted towards the CB IR, or
• your dual (training) hours under the FAA IR training were not accepted towards the CB IR

The former would be outrageous. The latter is what I would expect in Euroland where non European training is generally disregarded.

BTW the FAA accepts all ICAO flight training done anywhere in the world in any aircraft reg, towards any FAA license or rating.

I requested cancelling IFR followed by an LPV approach under VFR. The controller was a bit puzzled by that…. :)

Sometimes this surprises them. I flew the Bolzano IAP under VFR once too… the lower DH requires special crew qualification, but under VMC anybody can fly it as VFR.

ArcticChiller wrote (post #1):

I was indeed designated as PIC and charged with those duties.

While under instruction you were not acting as pilot-in-command. This fact was found by the NTSB Board in Administrator v. Hamre and has been repeatedly confirmed in following cases. See post made on 30 Jan 2018 on p 5 of the thread Instructor liable just for being present in the aircraft? (link). There is agreement on this point between US regulations, ICAO standards, and the technical requirements made in the Aircrew Regulation.

It is also a regulatory requirement to hold an instrument rating—or equivalent privileges when conferred by the pilot certificate—when acting as pilot-in-command of a US-registered civil aircraft wherever it may be, or any other civil aircraft when operated in US airspace, while operating under the instrument flight rules. See 14 CFR 61.3(e).

ArcticChiller wrote (post #17):

All my training for the IR was SPIC…

The student pilot-in-command capacity is not recognised in modular training courses.

Peter wrote:

BTW the FAA accepts all ICAO flight training done anywhere in the world in any aircraft reg, towards any FAA license or rating.

Not any aircraft. Only those identified in 14 CFR 61.5(b) which have a special or standard airworthiness certificate approved by a contracting state. This requirement is made in 14 CFR 61.51(j).

Hi,

I am quite in the same situation. I got my FAA IR rating last May in Florida together with another french Pilot. I have a total of 34h instrument time but except the flight test, it’s only under instruction. So i wanted to know that if i want to convert to CB-IR EASA, i need to do 50h more or only 50h-34h=16h ?
The flight instructor there say me to log PIC time the IR training as long as i had a valid BFR at that time.
I have never did IFR in Europe so for sure i will need some training.

French DGAC ask to have 50h PIC time to convert CBIR with a flight test, so seems instruction time do not count ?

Thanks for the reply ArticChiller, i’m not sure i understand, so you were able to convert to en-route IR ? You pass a flight test for this ? With how much PIC time ?