Frans wrote:
I can’t confirm that. The regional FIR FIS like Strasbourg or Bâle will hand you over to Reims Control, as soon as you want to climb above their airspace. No problems at all, as most pilots are already in contact with the regional FIS when flying in France.
Of course they do and it’s always good to ask the helpful FIS first but it’s also good to fetch the sector ATC frequencies yourself?
It happens that some people tend to confuse FIS/ATC roles? have zero awareness of airspace class they are flying in now/next? with no idea of type of service they are getting? but a bit of understanding is healthy, especially when flying uncontrolled VFR/IFR
One main reason for such laziness is that airspace frequencies & sectors above FL100 may not be listed on SkyDemon screens (due to some de-clutter settings) or VFR charts (worth reading what is there and what is not) but these things are well listed in low IFR charts and become clear after some AIP digging
A better question for the thread is what tools one needs to plan VFR above FL100?
France FIS treats VFR in FL65-FL115 as IFR for airspace acess but one should not get spoiled: request for VFR climb to FL120 require more planning than just call SIV and they will sort it for you 
What else does it require then?
boscomantico wrote:
What else does it require then?
Calling ATC who owns airspace to clear you inside it when other FIS/ATC who don’t own it are too lazy to get you a handover?
It’s plain obvious but I think you will need a frequency for that sector and AFAIK it’s highly unlikely to be in the VFR charts or SkyDemon screens, I already listed the right “low level IFR sectors” to look at in my previous post, it’s just one way to get around it but probably there are other ways…
I hate to give lessons but I already shared the sad story of this guy in the past, apparently he did not understand how to “pop-up VFR above FL115 and who to talk to” (he was flying DA42 with ATPL, MEIR, SEIR and probably has more overall experience and recent hours than most of us in this forum)
https://www.bea.aero/docspa/2007/d-us070606/pdf/d-us070606.pdf
local copy
Ibra wrote:
Calling ATC who owns airspace to clear you inside it when other FIS/ATC who don’t own it are too lazy to get you a handover?French FIS is not too lazy for a handover. If you join them and tell them you want to climb to FL120, they do coordination for you and/or send you over to the Control frequency. It is the same with German or Italian FIS, except that French FIS is mostly also real ATC (Approach) at the same time (SIV). If you come in FL120 from e.g. Germany, Langen Radar would hand you directly over to Reims Control. So basically, you don’t need any Control frequency for the “first” contact.
What happened to him? The report is in French.
14 years old. Anyway, judging by the summary, it is far fetched saying that the accident was caused by the pilot not knowing some ATC frequency.
Peter wrote:
What happened to him?
He was VFR at FL115, he called FIS to climb to FL130 while VFR to “avoid clouds” which did not work with “zero FIS compassion”, he then went down bellow his MSA toward rising higher terrain east to avoid airspace & weather, the sad bit is that pilot was IFR rated & IFR equipped
To add a bit he was flying dead at intersection of 3 FIR FIS regions for VFR & 4 LTA ATC sectors for IFR with no heading/route/level in mind, I am not sure how much SIV could have helped to give a pop-up handover, they are not mind readers, but yes I don’t know what would have happened if he called one of the Delta ATC himself asking for IFR at FL140 or VFR at FL135? it did work for me once when FIS asked to stay bellow Charlie TMA while I was heading to Pyrenees and preferred to be at FL120 about 30nm before…
Lately I did discover an error in the way SkyDemon did represent the C airspace over the entire French Alps FL115 to FL195. Now it got fixed but apparently I was the first to complain. That probably tells about the amount of VFR traffic at that altitude.
Frans wrote:
SkyDemon also doesn’t show the TMA frequencies in Germany, as the DFS doesn’t publish them for VFR traffic, to enforce VFR traffic to use FIS for coordination first. Maybe it’s the same in France?
Maybe DFS does not show en-route Frequencies for TMA but I am sure Jepps charts do (I will check later at home)
Yes, SkyDemon does not show those frequencies but DSNA publish them in AIP and I can see them on every IFR chart, see my example for Bordeaux Delta LTA
Sebastian_G wrote:
Lately I did discover an error in the way SkyDemon did represent the C airspace over the entire French Alps FL115 to FL195. Now it got fixed but apparently I was the first to complain. That probably tells about the amount of VFR traffic at that altitude.
Good to know, well yes SkyDemon does not show some airspace above FL120 in UK, does not show nationwide TMZ above FL100, does not show Echo Airways in France, does not show TRA(G) while in gliding in Scotland, there is also the permanent airspace activated/dis-activated on weekends and night where this is not handled properly
Yes you need a good list of users to explore and debug these gaps in the software: airspace parsing is done automatically from AIP/NOTAMS without much quality checks except when user feedback highlights it, however, it still better than “CAA 1:250k VFR paper chart in UK”, I saw people using it for gliders wave flying or VFR cross country but it does not show airspace above FL50 (5000ft AMSL), maybe this knowledge is irrelevant as they bimble without altitude reporting
