Flying your family

@BB

this is one of the bits that should have gone into the “what breaks your confidence” thread: Newbies who ask a simple and straightforward question and then get shouted at by all sorts of “experts” on what they can do and what they can not do. Happens here very rarely but in that “other place” as well as othes I know quite regularly. I’ve even seen a case where these “experts” (who never do more than 100$ burgers) do their best to alianate families of fellow pilots with their horror stories, just because they are jealous that these people have the balls to do things they don’t.

I vividly remember one guy who came online in a forum and said he was a new PPL and out to buy a Cessna 210 to fly his family around, heavens did he get flack. To his credit, he never listened to them and is now flying happily with his Cessna and I believe even posts here.

One tendency I do see in myself is that one gets grumpier with experience of European aviation, not only due to the legislative problems but also due to the fact that European weather is a pretty difficult affair. If I see how easy flying is in Florida or even in parts of Southern Europe…. I am catching myself frequently in that I am far too pessimistic out of experience. I have to say that in my younger years I did a lot more things with a certain naivity and go-minded attitude than today. Maybe working in the field and in flight safety has not helped.

Most new PPL’s want to do exatly that, do their PPL and then travel. Realistically, most of them are in for a rough arrival if they are not willing to significantly extend their capabilities both in piloting as well as in that of their plane. While in terms of seats a four seater usually is enough for an average family of 3 1/3rd as the stats go, it may well be that it is not in terms of weight and balance. Wifes and other passengers tend to react quite violently to suggestions that they should go on a trip with less than the airline like 23 kgs of checked and 15 kgs of handluggage.

What I find important if you want to fly with your family is that they are on board this idea BEFORE you even start your PPL. It is very frustrating for someone just getting their license to at that stage hear from their significant other something along the line of “me, in that small plane? Never!” Something I have seen often. Sometimes triggered by their attendance at pilot gossip meetings and the horrors they had to listen to there, sometimes by denial that this superclumsy guy who can’t fix the dishwasher before breakfast actually is regarded fit to fly a plane…

I belive that if you take it easy at first, get your feet wet and grow with your capabilities and airplane, travelling with your family can be a great thing.

Wives and other passengers tend to react quite violently to suggestions that they should go on a trip with less than the airline like 23 kgs of checked and 15 kgs of hand luggage

Mine can pack for a week in a single bag measuring 40 cm x 30 × 10 cm, including shoes… She kids me that I chose her on that basis. It may be true

Most non-pilots dislike IMC, especially in turbulence.

I think it’s mostly because they are scared of the unknown. I took a friend of mine to the last Tannkosh. On the way there, with fairly gentle IMC and turbulence, she was quite worried and scared until I started to brief her in detail about everything I was doing and everything the atmosphere was doing to us. On the way back we went through much more serious weather, with a thunderstorm in the vicinity and a shower of snowflakes from the cockpit ceiling for a couple of minutes as we were climbing through a cloud, but she had already been told what is what, and just enjoyed the rough ride.

She kids me that I chose her on that basis. It may be true

I believe you :)

Pal I know used to have this great Long Eze before he got married. Flew on vaccation several times with it before they bought a house in Spain. Now he drives a Toyota HiAce…takes him 2 days to get to Spain but his wife can carry her baggage in comfort. (They can’t fly airlines for that reason either).

Mooney Driver, Mrs Silvaire smiles, remembers you well and sends her regards…

Well, I think when you want to carry your family around, IMC is not really an option…
I mean, after reading Peter’s tales, I do think it should be like most commercial flights : climb through it, cruise in mostly calm air, and descend through it.

Which is why I am waiting to finish my IR to buy a plane (which should then be IR capable enough to do that kind of flying)

For now, being a VFR renting his plane from the club, when i offer a plane trip to my family it usually involves a backup plan (refundable train/plane tickets, refundable hotel if need be) or the very clear statement that if all the stars are not aligned, it’s a non-negotiable no-go.

But i do manage some cool things, like going to a wedding in Bordeaux last September. It was a bit of a race but everyone was happy and little one slept 4h straight on the way back. It was that or a 5-6h train trip with stations change in Paris…

Nice topic! I do sometimes fly with my daughters (2,5 yrs an 1 yr) to the Wadden Isles (EHTX, EHAL or one of the German ones) to watch the seals and play on the beach and eat fatty foods or any other destination with something of interest to them. But I only fly under the best of conditions and as high as comfortable. They usually just fall a sleep, especially on the way home. My wife is a little apprehensive and has actually never flown with me (well, only once when we where dating, she flew with me in a Ka-7 glider, she only dared to sit in the back seat), but she is okay with me taking our girls along.

I don’t see myself flying the family VFR to (e.g.) the holiday home of the in-laws in France, and at the moment I don’t even want to. It’s just not as safe (and practical) as the alternatives. I am obliged to my girls, to do whatever is safest, because they can not make the choice themselves.

Maybe when I gain more experience in doing long cross country flights (and after getting my EIR) my view on the matter will change.

I am obliged to my girls, to do whatever is safest, because they can not make the choice themselves.

This is going to be controversial but most of the cases I recall where somebody killed their whole family were ones where the pilot did something seriously stupid, having discarded all the normal rules for risk management.

Google on N2195B. He used to share “my hangar”. He flew VFR in solid IMC for hundreds of miles, straight into a TSRA over the Massif Central in France, where he got embedded with his family. I doubt he even looked at the tafs and metars and definitely he did not look at the radar image or anything like that. His turbo Seneca had a FL240 ceiling but he had no oxygen so that was that escape route cut off. His rubber boots were INOP (I have this from a guy who refused to sign off his plane) so there went another option. He was > 1999kg so… more VFR. My mechanic (who never worked on this plane, but has refused to sign off many a wreckage, despite some of the owners getting absolutely furious) was the last person to see them alive. He asked the pilot whether he really wants to fly in this crappy wx; the reply was “I always fly”. Was he stupid? He was an economist with a PhD… He had a PPL/IR but didn’t make effective use of it (or of his brain for that matter). And his IR was American so he would have been taught about icing and wx, not the pretend-crap in the JAA IR (I have both IRs).

Flying is safe, so long as you don’t have a death wish.

I regularly fly with my family (wife and two kids), relatives (including mother and mother in law ), friends, co-workers – none of them hasn’t had any objections during or after flight and all of them have flied with me on more than one occasion. I would never take any of them if I wasn’t confident in my ability to fly safe on a chosen day. Since the majority of them are not pilots (maybe 3 or 4 are in more than 50 people) I guess they trust me based on fact that I’m pretty much inclined to safety and risk management