FIKI certification in Europe - what does it mean?

Even if you use some “superior forcast” to cut between legal & not legal FIKI, I would argue any flight where as “forecasted 0C is above MSA”, the flight is “100% legal under NCO” irrespective of how you define FIKI or icing while any flight with “forecasted 0C bellow MSA” is theoretically a flight into icing or a flight into terrain but as long as you can see both wings and terrain surfaces it’s not an issue

For “PIC forecast expectations”, I imagine most of us did found clouds/ice when they did not expect them in forecasts? while sometimes it was CAVOK with forecast was full of clouds/ice? You have to be up there yourself to see probabilities turning into outcomes and you are on your own to make the right decisions, always give it a try and act sensibly, c’est la vie…

Peter wrote:

Do you have a copy of the AFMS for it? It could not have been FAA-FIKI, for the reasons previously mentioned.

Here is the first page of the limitations section. It does use the expression “Flight into known icing conditions”. What more do you want?

Scan_pdf

I have a FIKI plane, and for what it is worth, in my POH (supplement 4), icing conditions are described as follows: Icing conditions are defined as visually detected ice, or the presence of visible moisture in any form, at an OAT of 5C (41F) or below.

Known icing conditions are defined by 14 CFR Part 25, Appendix C. These conditions do not include, nor were test conducted in, all icing conditions that may be encountered (e.g. freezing rain, freezing drizzle, mixed conditions or conditions defined as severe).

I. FLIGHT IN CONDITIONS OUTSIDE OF 14 CFR PART 25 APPENDIX C IS PROHIBITED
II.THE AIRPLANE MUST NOT DEPART OR BE FLOWN INTO AN AIRPORT WHERE FREEZING RAIN OR FREEZING DRIZZLE CONDITIONS ARE BEING REPORTED

So it is certainly not a free ticket to fly in all icing conditions. I see it above all as an opportunity to climb or descend through a layer of ice and certainly not to fly in ice conditions for long periods of time, although that is possible in case you have no other choice.

Airborne_Again wrote:

I think there is a reason why the regs say “expected” and not “forecast”. So I don’t think it is as clear-cut as you make it

Fully agree! Sometimes you have to expect Icing even if it’s not been forecasted (e.g. if you encounter a cloud during flight in icing temperatures but the forecast was clear sky). If on the other hand a forecast from a reliable source (i.e. a met office and not Joe Neighbor in the hangar) does forecast icing, it is quite difficult to explain why you should not expect it. “The forecast I heard said rain but for me it was completely unexpected that it could rain …”

Therefore I’d fully support: If the forecast predicts icing, you have to expect icing – and that implies that with a plane that is not certified for known icing you must only fly there when you can positively avoid flying into an icing zone (e.g. if it is isolated clouds in day VMC).

It doesn’t matter how you shake this, we still come back to… which forecast?

One also needs absolute clarity between (a) what is smart to do (many previous threads on that) and (b) what creates a criminal offence.

RobertL18C wrote:

Well ATC will pass on a PIREP and expect you take avoiding action.

In Europe?!

Airborne_Again wrote:

Here is the first page of the limitations section. It does use the expression “Flight into known icing conditions”. What more do you want?

Scan_pdf

Maybe it is FIKI if it was delivered like this from the factory, whereas a later install is via an STC?

Is the system completely identical?

In this case, the european rules (giving the PIC more judgement) make more sense than those of the FAA.

Not talking about what is sensible, some pilots don’t fly in winter blue sky even with FIKI SR22T, some will fly in icing forecast with C172 hoping to not encounter it, each to his own choices…

So legality, let’s examples on “expected”,
- Any flight with ground OAT > 5degC is legal irrespective of the forecast, legal yes/no?
- Flying non-FIKI turbo “hot prop/wing” with plan to out climb 0C deg in IMC with icing risk to stay vmc-on-top, legal yes/no?
- Descending through 0C deg in IMC with risk of icing to land, legal yes/no?
- Flying above MSA in freezing IMC in non-FIKI to avoid hitting terrain with icing risk, legal yes/no?

For ATC enforcing no icing departure in non-FIKI? seriously? yes it may happen if you taxi in front of the tower with the new “icing STOL flap mods”