You are our hero LFHN 
That flight on youtube would be a A-bomb.
Alpha_Floor wrote:
Is saying “the controller allowed me to do it” a valid excuse?
No. You still need to follow the rules. E.g. if a controller clears you at 500 ft over at town, you will bust the minimum height ruls. If the controller clears you VFR at 2500’ and the cloudbase is 2600’ you will bust the distance from cloud rule. In both these cases you must say that you are unable to accept the clearance and request a revised one. It would be the same thing if the controller clears you into class A on a VFR flight.
Dimme wrote:
Where in the AIP does it state that ATC can cancel your IFR clearance?
ATC can amend your clearance anytime. If you leave controlled airspace and ATC tells you remain OCAS, then they have amended the clearance. The problem is that this is not something a foreign pilot would expect, so (s)he is left in a difficult situation.
Wow, that’s quite a story!
Can you clarify for me a bit exactly what was happening? You were leaving the UK on an IFR flightplan, having been in Class A with London Control, and they tried to dump you OCAS on leaving UK airspace rather than hand you over to Amsterdam? Is that right?
Graham wrote:
Wow, that’s quite a story!Can you clarify for me a bit exactly what was happening? You were leaving the UK on an IFR flightplan, having been in Class A with London Control, and they tried to dump you OCAS on leaving UK airspace rather than hand you over to Amsterdam? Is that right?
Hi Graham, I have written about it on the forum here earlier but cannot quite find it now. I was flying back from Gamston Retford (got fuel in Gamston, mechanic is based in Netherthorpe after the annual) and flew back to LFHN with a stop in EBAW to see my parents in the midst of this COVID craziness. Having been IFR (in IMC) they tried to dump me (can’t recall what ATC unit) and I refused. It’s on the forum here somewhere, will try to dig up. it was in 2020.
but cannot quite find it now
London Control will dump you if you leave CAS, which depending on your route could be below FL105.
Another subtlety is that, yes, ATC cannot cancel your IFR status, but they can “amend” your clearance. This is probably the hook on which UK ATC hangs their coat if this sort of thing blows up.
LFHNflightstudent wrote:
but when they said you are now VFR I simply told them I never cancelled and shall we listen to the tapes. Silence…. followed by a stay out of controlled airspace.
Well, the bright side is they didn’t tell you to “stay outside AND BELOW controlled airspace”, which is what I hear a lot these days and makes no sense to me. What do they care whether I am outside and above CAS? I always cringe when I hear it.
(What happened to you is appalling honestly…)
Airborne_Again wrote:
If you leave controlled airspace and ATC tells you remain OCAS, then they have amended the clearance
Indeed, you are still cleared IFR to destination but route clerance is amended to ROCAS
One has to be aware of UK symantics when UK ATC says “Radar Service Terminated” it’s effectively “Cancel IFR” on their side, “Radar Control” it’s “IFR starts now” on their side, this may not make sense when comparing it to IFR elsewhere as OCAS one can flip VFR/IFR on own side when they wish without even asking ATC
B737 flying Heathrow to Newqway gets IFR Radar Deconfliction Service in Class G (sort of +/-5nm CAS around it) and go throught Exeter with no issues, a PA28 flying Shoreham to Newqway at FL90 could be on IFR Basic Service in Class G all the way and is expected to ask Exeter for IFR CAS transit 
The real test for IFR implied/amended route clearance is “IFR comm loss” but I understand one has zero risk if they set 7600 (or better 7700) and fly through CAS (just claim it was done in IMC, real or imagined) as per IFR FPL (but better have one filed as it’s not required)
I imagine GA foreign pilot will surely get off the hook with regard to driving through CAS, they are not supposed to know what “pass your message” or “remain outside controlled airspace” means, but not sure how many will not be tempted to fly IFR OCAS with no radar services? or land IFR in some grass stips in hardcore IMC with no IAP?
@Dimme @Cttime is it ok to fly IFR OCAS witout radar services ? in VMC? in IMC?
Ibra wrote:
@Dimme @Cttime is it ok to fly IFR OCAS witout radar services ? in VMC? in IMC?
In Sweden? Yes, yes, yes.
But above 5000’ MSL / 3000’ GND and always in RMZ you need a flight plan and radio contact with ATS. Being in radio contact may or may not provide you with a radar service depending on radar coverage and availability of radar at the ATS unit concerned.
Airborne_Again wrote:
In Sweden? Yes, yes, yes.
Yes I had the impression it’s also the case in Sweden !
For CAS acess/handover: do you get explicit clearance for next CAS entry or handover contact to the next sector? or you are always talking to same ATC with a FIS hat while you are OCAS?
Not sure if this is ever the case for Sweden airspace but let’s assume it’s 2 different CAS ATC & 3rd different FIS OCAS in the middle, you don’t get RT reply in RMZ OCAS while IFR, do you become a VFR ?
