Interesting!
It is possible that our “forum campaign” is having some effect, particularly given the international nature of EuroGA and the wide exposure these UK issues receive outside the UK as a result.
NATS, along with all of UK ATC and the CAA, read EuroGA daily. And when I posted a link to this thread on FB (I use FB to promote EuroGA) some time ago, I got beaten up by a bunch of NATS ATCOs (which is completely normal; beating up anyone criticising “the system” is an AMC with the company social media policy 
) but maybe the issue is finally getting some attention.
They would have of course realised that a foreign pilot on a Eurocontrol IFR flight will expect a continuous service, and if [the man who demands to be nameless] busted him, the foreign CAA would just laugh at the UK for silently terminating his IFR clearance in the first bit of Class G.
I plan to do this flight again soon (one cannot visit EGHE currently but I would do it just for photos) so will find out 
Remembering this thread I was thinking of what would happen when I flew EGHQ-EGLK last weekend. Due to RAD mandatory routing rules for aircraft inbound into EGLK, I had to file the southern UK route instead of routing via Cardiff/Bristol where controlled airspace is lower and adjoins Q63 into CPT where controlled airspace is lower as well. So I filed:
EGHQ DAWLY DCT GIBSO DCT SAM DCT RUDMO KATHY1V EGLK
(SAM DCT RUDMO is the RAD mandatory routing requirement:
)
Overall ATC service was much better than expected. Received the clearance from Newquay Ground and handed over to Newquay Radar on track DAWLY, climbing to FL90. Closer to Exeter, I was then handed over to London Control which provided me with a Traffic Service OCAS, N864 (Berry Head CTA) crossing clearance and then Traffic Service and clearance to enter controlled airspace near SAM with clearance for KATHY1V arrival route, then shortcut SAM-EVATA and handover to Farnborough Radar for the STAR and descent into Blackbushe.
Positive surprise was that I received a radar service throughout and that the Newquay controller told me “Given that you will need to cross controlled airspace north of Berry Head, I will hand you over directly to London Control” and gave me the airways squawk 0242. London Control then asked me what type of service I wanted so I asked for Traffic Service and I was then handed over from one London Control sector to the next all the way even though I was flying OCAS (136.6→129.43→134.125) at FL90.
This was the flight as recorded by FlightAware FR24: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/N799DS and https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n799ds#27711734
tmo wrote:
but in case of VFR in Poland I often go OCAS → CAS → OCAS → CAS and get cleared into each bit of CAS (usually a TMA, but also CTR and others) independently, but without any delay or discussion;
I have similar experiences from Poland. Once I got cleared to my destination (!) VFR transiting Poland from Czechia to Germany. Of course, that clearance is not valid in Germany, but it was a delightful surprise that I didn’t have to worry about all the airspace ahead in Poland.
Can’t speak for IFR, unfortunately, yet, but in case of VFR in Poland I often go OCAS → CAS → OCAS → CAS and get cleared into each bit of CAS (usually a TMA, but also CTR and others) independently, but without any delay or discussion; FIS usually arranges the handoff and all I do is call the appropriate controller. One could just treat G as controlled airspace.
If the CAS → OCAS → CAS is during descent (eg. clipping the layers of a TMA) I usually only get cleared for the 1st one, but this case stays with the same ATC unit.
Dimme wrote:
Unable, my IFR chart doesn’t depict all airspace
Indeed if you treat no “handover frequency” as IFR lost com you are off the hook
Will try one day but I need to hold a non-UK PPL
Airborne_Again wrote:
No. You still need to follow the rules. E.g. if a controller clears you at 500 ft over at town, you will bust the minimum height ruls. If the controller clears you VFR at 2500’ and the cloudbase is 2600’ you will bust the distance from cloud rule. In both these cases you must say that you are unable to accept the clearance and request a revised one. It would be the same thing if the controller clears you into class A on a VFR flight.
I have had and followed various instructions from French ATC which break other rules – usually to do with flying lower than usually allowed or being asked to fly into a prohibited zone or class A VFR. The two I remember off the top of my head are:
1.Summer 2018 flying along the coastal route around Nice/Monaco, the 500ft part. I descended to 500ft on the QNH given and the controller almost immediately requested I descend a further 200ft. I remember confirming my height and the QNH setting and asked for confirmation, which they gave saying there was commercial traffic inbound.
2. A few years ago there was low level haze with poor viz leaving St Cyr L’ecole and on contacting Paris Info they immediately cleared me to climb into the Class A VFR. I repeated I was VFR when responding and they confirmed I should climb to 2500ft above the crud.
Regards, SD..
Ibra wrote:
If you get “freecall en-route” it’s done !
Unable, my IFR chart doesn’t depict all airspace.
Ibra wrote:
Sweden FIS (Sweden Control, is radar unit?)
Yes, but it does not necessarily have radar coverage in all of uncontrolled airspace.
Cttime wrote:
“you don’t get RT reply in RMZ OCAS while IFR, do you become a VFR ?”
I don’t know what you mean. No you don’t become VFR unless you can remain VMC and you cancel IFR. If you don’t get a reply you apply lost comms procedures.
Airborne_Again wrote:
If you don’t get RT replies in a RMZ OCAS then it is a comfailure situation
Got it, I guess talking to Sweden FIS (Sweden Control, is radar unit?) keeps the show going or at least you are expected on both sides
Same as talking to FIS with radar (Scottish Info or ATC radar units Luton/Essex/Thames doing FIS deconfliction) does keep the show going
Talking to London Info (FIS with no radar) between ATC units is where “lost in translation” ICAO procedure applies
If you get “freecall en-route” it’s done !
Taking this back to the UK this dodgy practice is partly a consequence of most CAS+OCAS routes validating via Eurocontrol.
The UK could have chosen to supply Eurocontrol with standard routes and banned all other routes. One way is to set MAXDCT=0 and then only published airways will route, and you can put in the MEA as a constraint. I recall Albania’s airspace is like that. It also means any airport to which you want to fly IFR must have SIDs and STARs published. It would also make it almost impossible to do “GA IFR” in the UK because you would have to fly in narrow corridors, and often FL150+ This is an old map but is very close
But ultimately the disconnect in ATC service is due to ATC funding and the politics related to that… I think there are some serious rivalries between different units / different companies. For example Solent quite clearly doesn’t like talking to Bournemouth even though their CAS is joined up! And why doesn’t Solent or Bournemouth link up with Exeter, using this
or even, keeping it in line with ATC technology, with this
And why does the UK system (not sure who runs this bit) toss flight plans they receive from Eurocontrol in the dustbin if they are “too low”? And if they don’t toss them in the bin immediately, why do they toss them in the bin as soon as you have exited the first bit of CAS?
