As we learn new things in the French thread a few details about US radio I never understood:
1) What is this 10 minutes after departure thing? It seems to indicate the altitude you can expect to climb later but in my experience the 10 minutes part makes no sense. The climb seems to happen sooner, it happens later and they just always say “10 minutes”. To me it just seems to mean “expect altitude xyz later on”?
2) Why is it always “climb and maintain xyz”. If you read back only “climb xyz” they will insist it is climb and maintain. But what else should one do? Do they have any “climb and not maintain” clearance type?
1) is a lost coms procedure.
2) good question 
Quite on topic :
I wish to find a equivalent in europe.
Sebastian_G wrote:
1) What is this 10 minutes after departure thing? It seems to indicate the altitude you can expect to climb later but in my experience the 10 minutes part makes no sense. The climb seems to happen sooner, it happens later and they just always say “10 minutes”. To me it just seems to mean “expect altitude xyz later on”?
It’s not always 10 mins. I can be three, five, 15 anything. At my two home bases it’s usually 5 minutes.
Sebastian_G wrote:
2) Why is it always “climb and maintain xyz”. If you read back only “climb xyz” they will insist it is climb and maintain. But what else should one do? Do they have any “climb and not maintain” clearance type?
Yes. You can get a climb at discretion, although that’s rare IME. More often you may get a climb to 5000 without the ‘maintain’ and another climb – say to 6000 – while you’re still climbing to 5000. In fact that’s the norm departing IFR to the North from my second base, KHHR.
Sebastian_G wrote:
2) Why is it always “climb and maintain xyz”.
Maybe when you are given a clearance “climb to 6kft”, in theory you are cleared to level off on all levels bellow it (e.g. anytime CHTs are high I can level off at 2kft and climb later) before resuming your climb? if ATC hates that they will ask you to “climb & maintain 6kft”, you can’t just level off in 4kft and resume the climb later?
From the US Aeronautical Information Manual
The term “cruise” may be used instead of “MAINTAIN” to assign a block of airspace to a pilot from the minimum IFR altitude up to and including the altitude specified in the cruise clearance. The pilot may level off at any intermediate altitude within this block of airspace. Climb/descent within the block is to be made at the discretion of the pilot. However, once the pilot starts descent and verbally reports leaving an altitude in the block, the pilot may not return to that altitude without additional ATC clearance.
When ATC has not used the term “AT PILOT’S DISCRETION” nor imposed any climb or descent restrictions, pilots should initiate climb or descent promptly on acknowledgement of the clearance. Descend or climb at an optimum rate consistent with the operating characteristics of the aircraft to 1,000 feet above or below the assigned altitude, and then attempt to descend or climb at a rate of between 500 and 1,500 fpm until the assigned altitude is reached. If at anytime the pilot is unable to climb or descend at a rate of at least 500 feet a minute, advise ATC. If it is necessary to level off at an intermediate altitude during climb or descent, advise ATC, except when leveling off at 10,000 feet MSL on descent, or 2,500 feet above airport elevation (prior to entering a Class C or Class D surface area), when required for speed reduction.
172driver wrote:
More often you may get a climb to 5000 without the ‘maintain’ and another climb – say to 6000 – while you’re still climbing to 5000. In fact that’s the norm departing IFR to the North from my second base, KHHR.
If you didn’t get the clearance to 6000’ before reaching 5000’, what would you do differently from having been cleared to “climb and maintain” 5000’ ?
Here is the guidance controllers are given regarding question 1. They are pretty well trained and follow the phraseology much better than we pilots.
5. When a SID does not contain published crossing restrictions and/or is a SID with a Radar Vector segment or a Radar Vector SID; or a SID is constructed with a Radar Vector segment and contains published crossing restrictions after the vector segment, instruct aircraft to “MAINTAIN (altitude).”
NOTE−
1. 14 CFR Section 91.185, says that in the event of a two-way radio communication failure, in VFR conditions or if VFR conditions are encountered after the failure, the
pilot must continue the flight under VFR and land as soon as practicable. That section also says that when the failure occurs in IFR conditions the pilot must continue flight at the highest of the following altitudes or flight levels for the route segment being flown:
a. The altitude or flight level assigned in the last ATC clearance received.
b. The minimum altitude (converted, if appropriate, to minimum flight level as prescribed in 14 CFR Section 91.121(c)) for IFR operations. (This altitude should be consistent with MEAs, MOCAs, etc.)
c. The altitude or flight level ATC has advised may be expected in a further clearance.
2. If the expected altitude is the highest of the preceding choices, the pilot should begin to climb to that expected altitude at the time or fix specified in the clearance. The
choice to climb to the expected altitude is not applicable if the pilot has proceeded beyond the specified fix or if the time designated in the clearance has expired.
PHRASEOLOGY−
CLIMB AND MAINTAIN (the altitude as near as possible to the pilot’s requested altitude). EXPECT (the requested altitude or an altitude different from the requested altitude) AT (time or fix), and if applicable,(pilot’s requested altitude) IS NOT AVAILABLE.
EXAMPLE−
1. A pilot has requested flight level 350. Flight level 230 is immediately available and flight level 350 will be available at the Appleton zero five zero radial 35 mile fix.
The clearance will read: “Climb and maintain flight level two three zero. Expect flight level three five zero at Appleton zero five zero radial three five mile fix.”
2. A pilot has requested 9,000 feet. An altitude restriction is required because of facility procedures or requirements. Assign the altitude and advise the pilot at what fix/time the pilot may expect the requested altitude. The clearance could read: “Climb and maintain five thousand. Expect niner thousand one zero minutes after departure.”
3. A pilot has requested 17,000 feet which is unavailable. You plan 15,000 feet to be the pilot’s highest altitude prior to descent to the pilot’s destination but only 13,000 feet is available until San Jose VOR. Advise the pilot of the expected altitude change and at what fix/time to expect clearance to 15,000 feet. The clearance will read: “Climb and maintain one three thousand. Expect one five thousand at San Jose. One seven thousand is not available.”
Climb and Maintain or Descend and Maintain is a clearance to climb or descend continuously without any level off until reaching the altitude to be maintained, unless the clearance includes specific instructions such as a crossing restriction. With SIDs one can also receive a Climb via SID and with STARs one can receive a Descend via STAR clearance.
CRUISE− Used in an ATC clearance to authorize a pilot to conduct flight at any altitude from the minimum IFR altitude up to and including the altitude specified in the clearance. The pilot may level off at any intermediate altitude within this block of airspace. Climb/descent within the block is to be made at the discretion of the pilot. However, once the pilot starts descent and verbally reports leaving an altitude in the block, he/she may not return to that altitude without additional ATC clearance. Further, it is approval for the pilot to proceed to and make an approach at destination airport and can be used in conjunction with:
a. An airport clearance limit at locations with a standard/special instrument approach procedure. The CFRs require that if an instrument letdown to an airport is necessary, the pilot shall make the letdown in accordance with a standard/special instrument approach procedure for that airport, or
b. An airport clearance limit at locations that are within/below/outside controlled airspace and without a standard/special instrument approach procedure. Such a clearance is NOT AUTHORIZATION for the pilot to descend under IFR conditions below the applicable minimum IFR altitude nor does it imply that ATC is exercising control over aircraft in Class G airspace; however, it provides a means for the aircraft to proceed to destination airport, descend,and land in accordance with applicable CFRs governing VFR flight operations. Also, this provides search and rescue protection until such time as the IFR flight plan is closed.
A clearance for an approach is a clearance to descend when on a published route and instrument procedure based on the minimums published. If the route to the IAF or procedure fix is an unpublished route, then an altitude to maintain must be assigned to be maintained until the aircraft is established on a segment of a published route or instrument approach procedure.
