gallois wrote:
both ATS and not ATC?
Both ATC and (A)FIS are ATS (Air Traffic Services).
My understanding they are ATC not FIS/AFIS, for sure they do control inbound/outbound IFR traffic when it’s inside nearby Paris TMA or while on the ground, for VFR they ask procedural reporting and I doubt VFR can just go and fly overhead those airports and call himself uncontrolled
I have been given vector & slow down instruction in class G (I was doing 190kts while VFR on on descent bellow that Class A shelf 
)
To me “clear for takeoff & land on L/R runway” means tower ATC but I could be wrong
Are St Cyr and Toussus le Noble both ATS and not ATC?
Ibra wrote:
“This is because the UK strangely permits ATC in uncontrolled airspace”Oxford has an ATZ and ATC who manage it? outside ATZ you can fly as you wish
I don’t think it’s UK specific, St-Cyr and Toussus near Paris have proper Ground/Tower ATC in plain Class G even with no ATZ or CTR concept…
The ATZ is still uncontrolled airspace, which is the odd thing. But it as you say it is not the UK that “permits”. The possibility of having controlled airports in class G airspace is in SERA and indeed in the International Rules of the Air (ICAO Annex 2).
James_Chan wrote:
I believe SERA will in future fix this problem by requiring ATC controls traffic inside controlled airspace only.
SERA might fix the problem but if the UK leaves EASA — as it appears now, then it won’t matter for UK ATC.
“This is because the UK strangely permits ATC in uncontrolled airspace”
Oxford has an ATZ and ATC who manage it? outside ATZ you can fly as you wish
I don’t think it’s UK specific, St-Cyr and Toussus near Paris have proper Ground/Tower ATC in plain Class G even with no ATZ or CTR concept…
In the US the phraseology is “at or above” and “at or below”. Although one foot doesn’t matter much, picky controllers will correct you if you don’t read back “at or”. Much less possibility of confusion. Though doubtless not ICAO, start rant-fest about the US doing things its own way etc.
Charlie wrote:
which is over-reaching themselves given it’s Class G airspace.
This is because the UK strangely permits ATC in uncontrolled airspace.
I believe SERA will in future fix this problem by requiring ATC controls traffic inside controlled airspace only.
Airborne_Again wrote:
I’m sure I was “cleared” when I crossed the LAX class B VFR, but of course I may not remember correctly.
Yes, you were cleared INTO the LAX Class Bravo (Bravo requires explicit entry clearance if not on an IFR flight plan), but you were not cleared TO anywhere. Small but important difference.
The reason in Oxford is that the minimum holding altitude is 2,500 feet amsl and it is a busy corporate and IFR training base.
