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Registration, IFR

Apologies if some questions seem duplicate -- I still have leftover questions from my previous thread and would be happy about any help I can get -- information or pointers. ;-)

I'm contemplating buying a airplane for VFR, possibly IFR touring in Europe. I'm mostly familiar with US regulations, so I have a lot of questions marks about the rules around here:

  • Can I basically choose to register the plane in any EASA Member State (MS), or are there restrictions (such as residence, or citizenship)? Which States are "recommended" / "not recommended"?

  • Will I be able to legally fly IFR in EASA-land with an N-registered aircraft (under an EASA IR)?

  • Will IFR flying under the newly proposed en-route IR only be possible with fully IFR-certified aircraft, or might there be reduced equipment requirements?

  • Do you think year-round extensive European touring is feasible at all under VFR?

  • What is a general estimate about the additional annual fixed costs for an IFR aircraft such as the Socata (annual, chart updates, ...) over a VFR tourer?

Thanks a lot, guys!

Joerg

LFHN, LSGP, LFHM

Can I basically choose to register the plane in any EASA Member State (MS), or are there restrictions

At least under HB reg there are restrictions; though it seems that EU residents are mostly considered equivalent to swiss residents

Do you think year-round extensive European touring is feasible at all under VFR?

Only if you are very flexible and can wait for a couple of weeks if necessary

What is a general estimate about the additional annual fixed costs for an IFR aircraft such as the Socata over a VFR tourer?

The difference in annual maintenance cost between the same aircraft IFR or VFR are minimal. The biggest annual cost IMO is the required database subscription for IFR

LSZK, Switzerland

At least under HB reg there are restrictions; though it seems that EU residents are mostly considered equivalent to swiss residents

Could you elaborate please? I'm aware there's lots of Swiss residents (EU citizens) with aircraft registered in France, Germany, Denmark. Are there advantages with this other than insurance costs and possibly different national regulations for experimental aircraft?

The difference in annual maintenance cost between the same aircraft IFR or VFR are minimal. The biggest annual cost IMO is the required database subscription for IFR

I thought the annual inspection under EASA maintenance is a lot more involved for IFR aircraft? Would EUR 5000 be enough for maintenance and related fixed costs of an IFR aircraft (without hangarage)?

LFHN, LSGP, LFHM

I thought the annual inspection under EASA maintenance is a lot more involved for IFR aircraft?

Not really, static port test is required more often, that's IMO all

Would EUR 5000 be enough for maintenance and related fixed costs of an IFR aircraft (without hangarage)?

That's not enough even for a VFR aircraft, it's about double. 5000 is approximately the insurance.

LSZK, Switzerland

Can I basically choose to register the plane in any EASA Member State (MS), or are there restrictions (such as residence, or citizenship)? Which States are "recommended" / "not recommended"?

Yes, I would say you are rather free to choose. But depending in circumstances, you might have some inconveniences, for example getting certain signoffs for maintenance. Also, as an aircraft owner, you will occasionally have to deal with your CAA and this might become a language problem in certain cases.

The german register is rather "popular" in Europe. That is inter alia because they allow running certain components on condition and they allow certain amounts of flexibility in terms of maintenance intervals, etc. Some other CAAs are much stricter. On the other end of the scale, the italian register would be a nightmare.

Will I be able to legally fly IFR in EASA-land with an N-registered aircraft (under an EASA IR)?

Additionally, you will need the appropriate FAA papers (but these are comparatively easy to get if you already have the european ones; it's the other way round which is difficult).

For the time being, there doesn't appear to be any immediate threats to N-regs as such, but with EASA you never know what comes up next year.

Will IFR flying under the newly proposed en-route IR only be possible with fully IFR-certified aircraft, or might there be reduced equipment requirements?

There is absolutely no reason to believe so. It will be IFR in controlled airspace after all.

Do you think year-round extensive European touring is feasible at all under VFR?

No, not on a somewhat set schedule. But then not even under IFR, if your aircraft is a "normal" light type piston single (a long topic...). But the question is: do you really want to tour Europe in winter? But yes, even in spring and autumn there is always a lot of really bad weather in central and northern Europe, and you will have to face a lot of ice in these seasons.

What is a general estimate about the additional annual fixed costs for an IFR aircraft such as the Socata (annual, chart updates, ...) over a VFR tourer?

Huh?

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

Can I basically choose to register the plane in any EASA Member State (MS), or are there restrictions (such as residence, or citizenship)? Which States are "recommended" / "not recommended"?

In theory any EASA-reg is as good as any other but in reality that isn't quite true.

If you are a US citizen then just buy an N-reg plane.

Will I be able to legally fly IFR in EASA-land with an N-registered aircraft (under an EASA IR)?

Ref FAR 61.3 yes but only if the IR is issued by the owner of the airspace (details). So you need an FAA PPL/IR, and from April 2014, if proposed regs materialise as EASA wants, you will also need an EASA PPL/IR (and both medicals).

Will IFR flying under the newly proposed en-route IR only be possible with fully IFR-certified aircraft, or might there be reduced equipment requirements?

The former.

Do you think year-round extensive European touring is feasible at all under VFR?

It depends on your required despatch %. There is often great wx in the winter, and there is plenty of crap wx in the summer.

My guess at a random-date despatch rate for VFR is c. 50%, and for IFR c. 75%-85%. If you want to increase that you need the capability to fly in frontal wx which means full deice, radar, a FL250 ceiling and pressurisation. A TBM will take you to ~ 99%.

Obviously that is a very brief answer.

What is a general estimate about the additional annual fixed costs for an IFR aircraft such as the Socata (annual, chart updates, ...) over a VFR tourer?

The extra cost of IFR is potentially negligible i.e. just the GPS database cost, plus the occasional cost of fixing IFR avionics (which in turn depends on what goes wrong).

The extra cost of say a TB20 over a simple VFR type is probably a few k but this depends hugely on the detail. For example much of the cost saving by being VFR only derives from the fact that most VFR-only types are "homebuilts" whose maintenance is done by a mechanically keen owner, working for nothing and assisted by other people working for almost nothing.

There are no "VFR tourers" as such, unless you could the more capable homebuilts such as RVs in that.

Actual operating costs depend heavily on the plane, its age, its condition, etc. Perhaps the best is a new or nearly new modern-ish design (like my TB20, which costs me almost nothing apart from the odd avionics replacement/overhaul, but I do maintain it to a "100%" functionality, or perhaps an SR22) and perhaps the worst is an old piston twin which has been poorly maintained for decades and which drinks loads of avgas on top.

Avionics costs vary a lot. It's not clear whether the modern glass cockpits cost less to maintain. Last night I met up with some pilots who told me even worse horror stories about G1000 unreliability (and G1000 caused downtime) than I had ever heard before. I don't have "glass" but have just paid out $3200 on a replacement encoding altimeter...

Insurance is ~ GBP 3000 for 1000+ hr pilot, with an IR, and say GBP 200k hull value.

Again, a simple reply, many variables...

This may be worth a read - despite being very long. Aircraft ownership is a nontrivial project!

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

The german register is rather "popular" in Europe. That is inter alia because they allow running certain components on condition and they allow certain amounts of flexibility in terms of maintenance intervals, etc.

However, Germany operates the scam (oops I meant to say "scheme") known as the "IFR certificate" which means the firm doing the Annual has you over a barrel if they "feel" your plane doesn't meet some regulation.

This is completely wrong, because you could have some bit of kit INOP but be 100% legal in one type of IFR operation and not legal for another type.

One of the most important things in life is to avoid being bent over a barrel. This is especially important in aviation ownership

I think that for owners who are clued-up, have good contacts and are willing to get involved, N-reg is still the best - despite the pilot needing two lots of paperwork.

If you don't want to get involved and just want a plane to fly, you buy a Cirrus and drop it off at your friendly local Cirrus dealer, with the keys on the seat and a pre-signed blank cheque. I am going to get into trouble for saying this but I think it sums up the business model in that area pretty well.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Insurance is ~ GBP 3000 for 1000+ hr pilot, with an IR, and say GBP 200k hull value.

We paid about £1600 for ours for a Rockwell Commander. Admittedly hull value is half, but the other owner (at the time) had only 123 VFR hrs. Typically insurance drops when you have 50 hrs ON TYPE or so we have found out. But this insurance includes any pilot that meets the minimum requirements (123 hrs TT, 10 hrs on type)....

Hull value makes up a large percentage of the annual payments so a cheaper IFR tourer will be a lot cheaper to insure.

EGHS

If you are a non EU citizen you might have issues. You need to be UK citizen, UK company, Commonwealt citizen or EU citizen or an non-qualified with permanant residence in UK.

United Kingdom

I pay about 1% of the hull value for insurance (no other pilots). This seems very low to me and basically tells me that private GA is less dangerous than I thought Even though crashing my aircraft would not ruin me financially and I am not in "need" of a new one and could just stop flying altogether, I chose to pay the 1% premium because I think it is good value. Is the probability of myself getting a landing wrong, having an engine failure or simply forgetting to retract a gear just once in 100 years (roughly, interest on premiums ignored)? I thought it was much higher.

For the mandatory 3rd party waiver, I pay 1600 € a year. My aircraft is high-performance complex but I don't pay much less for a simple C172.

Whatever you do, make sure you have 20k€ on your bank account that are not allocated. The aircraft will bite you when you expect it least. When Lycoming need money, they force you to replace your crankshaft, etc. Even with a "modern" TB20 it is very much possible that some day there will be a structural integrity AD requiring a 30k€ modification/inspection, etc.

like my TB20, which costs me almost nothing apart from the odd avionics replacement/overhaul

You are very funny Peter. I don't think there is anybody spending more money and time on a piston 4 seater than you! Whether it's avionics or engine really doesn't matter, both are important parts of the aircraft.

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