That’s terrible. I really like to hassle French ATC, on the way back home, “request direct ABB”. In the bottom 2/3 of France none of them know where it is, then gradually it improves to “ask the next sector”, later to “we will ask the next sector” (no result usually), and eventually Bingo!
With the money saved (in France, with 50% employer’s NICs, this must be a few hundred k a year per VOR) they could re-instate police at some useful airports so Brits could fly there again 
Oh, whoops, I forgot…
Peter wrote:
That’s terrible. I really like to hassle French ATC, on the way back home, “request direct ABB”
I think the ATC waypoints will stay just like “direct DVR” or “direct BPK” on GPS, the VOR will always radiate until it dies or someone walks on it’s plug (the cost for servicing those VOR by DSNA is 130k/year and so far no one is using them, except aeroclubs who have some fleet for IFR/NVFR without updated GPS database and some “PPL EX19” machines)
Talking about costs, fuel costs while doing VOR-VOR zig-zag over one year exceeds the cost of the lowest IFR/VFR GPS out there (even on KNS80 I looked like muppet when they I got “direct ABCDE” and I said “negative”), not an issue if you are not paying for fuel during the flight (a typical FFA aeroclub instructor )
Let’s not talk about emergencies and backups, if someone is really concerned about losing COM/TXP/GPS with IMC bellow MSA and no fuel to make it to the sea or nearby conventional approach they should invest in a pilot parachute or airframe parachute, the former starts at 1500$, the latter is a bit more expensive
VOR by DSNA is 130k/year
Interesting. Do you have any other numbers for navaids?
France VOR/NDB plan,
https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/documents/download/f/d/8159901/
This is going to make for some interesting changes to Eurocontrol routings. Something to be alert for around the decommissioning dates. Some (many, most?) of these are part of IFR airways, which will of course either disappear or be rerouted. Perhaps this will be timed with the migration of parts of France to Free Route Airspace in 2022/2023 although that won’t affect the north part of the country until 2024.
All of “Airway VOR-VOR” are RNAV5 routes already and can be flown on GPS, the VOR will be removed but DME will stay real life and in database, so I don’t expect the routes to disappear
NDB they will get removed from aerodromes but doubt there is an Airway using NDB in France?
chflyer wrote:
Some (many, most?) of these are part of IFR airways, which will of course either disappear or be rerouted.
Or a new RNAV waypoint appears where the VOR used to be. At least that’s what’s happening at home when VORs are shut down.
Now in theory most light GA will not be able to fly IFR CAS without radar service being available?!
PART.NCO and PART.CAT require IFR GPS/RNAV and an alternative means of compliance to maintain RNP5 on an airway, which can be a radar service (you would need to advise loss of GPS to ATC and request radar vectors). Traditionally this was a VOR within 60 nm (RNP5), but if no VORs?? I guess some old timers have a LORAN still fitted :) but you might need a lot of paperwork to establish that was RNP5 in that area at that time.
Do you have examples of RNP5 Airway that require GPS integrity?
RNAV5 Airways can be flown on GPS without legal requirements for integrity monitoring neither during planning and neither during flying
You don’t need navigation backup for loss of RNAV (no integrity) or RNP (with integrity) to fly the same route all you need is a way for “extraction” and fly an alternative route, that could be an NDB, VOR, Radar, visuel navigation…
Radar is RNAV1 (or RNAV2), it can’t be used to plan for RNP5 Airway? but it’s OK for departure, arrival and missed as they are RNAV1 or VOR-VOR Airways as they are RNAV5
Ibra wrote:
You don’t need navigation backup for loss of RNAV (no integrity) or RNP (with integrity) to fly the same route all you need is a way for “extraction” and fly an alternative route, that could be an NDB, VOR, Radar, visuel navigation…
@ibra, that was the point, I think (has said “Now in theory most light GA will not be able to fly IFR CAS without radar service being available?!”) – if GPS is down and all the ground based navs are removed, the only way to navigate in IMC will be the radar. If if there is no radar, you are screwed.
