Ibra wrote:
I think those questions can be adressed easily, why not have an EDM-930 & G-meter and price including a monthly cleaning fee?
From the perspective of an owner that is exactly in the state of mind dublin mentioned:
Because all these devices are great in creating evidence that a renter has abused your baby – but that is something you “know” anyways. None of these devices is actually preventing such abuse.
As no renter would sign a rental agreement stating “If CHT exceeds 400 for more than 5 sec you owe me 120k for a new engine” even with EDM and the likes there is no way of actually protecting your baby.
Of course, putting money upfront is the only way to get the right incentives 
I was answering the question of mis-handled aircraft & engine history, it’s easy to get the last two years history on an SD card these days, it’s useful tool for everybody to have that data, renters & owners…
172driver wrote:
In reality, I think the market for pilots who want to rent far from their home base is minuscule, even in a big place like the US. If you really want to do a local (most likely scenic) flight somewhere, you just go up with an instructor.
That’s a good comment actually. When I started traveling quite a bit for work, at first I thought about flying in the different part of the world I was visiting more like do a checkout and then fly by myself. I realized that it was too complicated and settled for finding out a instructor and airplane and fly this way. Turns out, this is the best solution because I have little time to spend trying to learn the specific of the area I’m traveling to. The instructor takes care of that part, and often they are keen on giving some touristic info on top, which improves the experience:-) I just hold the control and fly where the instructor tells me. That gave me quite a few nice experiences.
WingsWaterAndWheels wrote:
That’s a good comment actually. When I started traveling quite a bit for work, at first I thought about flying in the different part of the world I was visiting more like do a checkout and then fly by myself. I realized that it was too complicated and settled for finding out a instructor and airplane and fly this way
For going to foreign countries and flying solo, that usually require a local licence typically: 3 months time & 1000$ in fees excluding flying not sure if it’s worth it for one flight? besides local language does apply in checkouts, even if you are proficient in Castilian they will speak Catalan to make your life harder
For local dual flying, it’s way easier to get an experience in gliding & microlight scenes, just pop-up on a nice weather day, pay and have a flight 
I hate posts like “Ibra’s” why even try; it’s too hard; just fly with an instructor. Do you hold any foreign licences or licence validations?
With some foresight and planning these can be obtained during a normal visit and not always greatly expensive. I hold a stand-alone FAA and a South Africa licence validation. The FAA is so straightforward, I’ve always questioned why Brits bother with the “piggy-back” licences. Also, the short exam/checkout flights are great to learn the area before heading off on your own.
Perhaps @lbra is referring to us UK licence holders who could fly EASA registered aircraft but through some political strategic thinking we now no longer can!
HeliPilot wrote:
I hate posts like “Ibra’s” why even try; it’s too hard; just fly with an instructor. Do you hold any foreign licences or licence validations?With some foresight and planning these can be obtained during a normal visit and not always greatly expensive. I hold a stand-alone FAA and a South Africa licence validation. The FAA is so straightforward, I’ve always questioned why Brits bother with the “piggy-back” licences.
I am sure it’s worth trying, fun flying for sure but probably 5 times more expensive than flying own aircraft and it takes lot of effort and time, so one needs to make make it worth with an epic trip not just burger runs
I will try South Africa validation one day, the validation still need an SA medical and some theory exams? but I have 3 medicals already, 4 soon with Brexit and 7*PPL: 4 of them are foreign, one EASA DGAC, one FAA piggy-back, one Moroccan conversion and one NZ validation, the 3 other are UK ones: NPPL, CAAPPL, FCLPPL as things went out of hand quickly
I have done dual flying with local instructors in few places where there were no other easy ways: Jordan, Israel, Chilie, Japan, Australia to name few, but I managed to rent and fly on my own in few countries, it used to work pretty well in EASA land (France & Cyprus) but also in other GA friendly places (USA & New Zeland), nonetheless it’s tough to rent in one country then fly foreign (insurance & equipement) but I managed few: rent in Spain go Africa, rent in US go Carribean, rent in France go UK
HeliPilot wrote:
Also, the short exam/checkout flights are great to learn the area before heading off on your own
Depends on what aircraft they are renting, their rules and airspace? I was told to budget 5h renting turbo-arrow and 10h for Cirrus in NYC area, we took C172 after 1h30min checkout, personal record: getting the keys for a J3 Cub after 25min of dual flying (the only N-reg in 1000NM radius and my BFR was up to date), the biggest fail or scam was 2h+2h checkout to “explore the local area” in Cyprus in a PA28 at 295£/h before getting the keys…
RobertL18C wrote:
Perhaps @lbra is referring to us UK licence holders who could fly EASA registered aircraft but through some political strategic thinking we now no longer can!
Yes that’s another money & effort pit, it’s not easy as one thinks, for start DGAC will not give you French LP6 & English LP6 that easily
- VFR French LP6 & English LP6, you may get away with it if you insist that your are Brit & French with high education degreees in both countries
- IFR French LP6 & English LP6, you need to take some tests in one dump place near Orly or regular tests with some private providers every 4 years
LP exams are tough because of unrelated content and junk audio quality: listing to Mexicains ATC giving machine gun clearances to Canadian PIC it’s unlike FAA piggy-back or standalone where random chat about your trip in-flight catering to some FSDO guy or DPE is largely enough…
Let’s not even talk about doing PPL/SEP skill-test or IR skill-test for EASA conversion in some FR-only airfield
Back on the concept of flight sharing / rentals, it seems like from the above that owners would fall into one of four categories
I wonder how many (in percentage terms) sit in each of those buckets… I think I find myself somewhere around 1.5 (i.e. between 1 & 2).
GA lacks some serious innovation and wouldn’t higher aircraft utilisation ultimately lead to higher activity in GA? Let’s ignore the fact that UK license holders can no longer rent in the EU… French can still rent in Italy etc…
And maybe it isn’t all about renting when “away from base”, maybe even in your local area you could then benefit from access to multiple aircraft, reducing load on individual assets.
In the long-run higher utilisation should lead to:
My experience is with syndicate owned aircraft. We’ve charged ourselves per tach hour, deducting the fuel added at local price.
Any new member who results in an increase in insurance pays for that himself. Anyone damaging pays the insurance deductible.
Everyone has capital invested in the aircraft.
We have had to retrospectively increase hourly charge
For non-owners, the hourly charge would have to be high enough to ensure a profit. Would that be less than an FBO aircraft?
Before I joined, a member was forced out for cheating. During my 30 years, one member stopped paying his monthly fixed costs. After his debt equalled his share, we sold it.
Legal action is not worthwhile for small value items.
