Peter wrote:
CAS or OCAS is all completely irrelevant to the legality
AFAIK, you can legally fly gliders OCAS in IMC in Germany, UK, France…without holding an ICAO IR 
You need to be ‘cloud rated’, you don’t need an ICAO IR or operate under IFR
Do you have a regulation that state,
You do need an IR to operate under ATC IFR clearance with IFR separation while flying in controlled airspace (Echo…Alpha)
Do you need an ICAO IR to fly IMC in Golf? or IMC in CTR? no idea but you will be surprised by the answers: it’s way more involved than detectability
AFAIK, you can legally fly gliders OCAS in IMC in Germany, UK, France…without holding an ICAO IR
You need to be ‘cloud rated’, you don’t need an ICAO IR or operate under IFR
Irrelevant. That’s because
Do you have a regulation that state,
You need to operate under IFR when flying IMC in Golf?
You need an ICAO IR to fly IMC in Golf?
Irrelevant. You need a license to fly a plane. A PPL is VFR only. If you are not VFR then you are IFR. To be IFR you need to appropriately licensed.
Do you need an ICAO IR to fly IMC in Golf? or IMC in CTR? no idea but you will be surprised by the answers: it’s way more involved than detectability
Nonsense, and irrelevant. If you know of loopholes, please start a new thread with a subject like “Loopholes for flying IFR without an IR or IMCR”. If there are loopholes, it would be poor drafting somewhere.
This thread is about Irish airspace and the IMCR.
Peter wrote:
the gliding community is, in practice, a law unto itself
Not only in practise, but also de jure. EASA has completely separate license and operational rules for gliding. Glider licenses are not issued according to part-FCL and glider flights are not carried out according to part-NCO. Indeed neither an IR or any other separate rating is required for cloud flights with gliders but training and a log book signoff is required. (Ref. SFCL.215.)
Just a gut feeling but my guess is that it’s about airspace. UK airspace is London FIR & Scottish FIR. If a part of Scottish FIR airspace cuts into the ROI, it’s still UK airspace, isn’t it? ROI & UK / Scottland have set it up that way so they’ll honor it.
IMCr & IRr are valid in Brest FIR (French airspace) when flying UK from/to Jersey, Alderney, Guernsey
Interesting, so the french CAA approved it? According to UK CAA without such approval it’s not allowed.
That is old. For example, IIRC,
is now 1500m, to align it with the 1500m min VFR figure for a basic PPL.
According to UK CAA without such approval it’s not allowed.
The IMCR is limited to UK airspace (whatever that means) plus dependent territories like the Falklands Islands, but it can be used anywhere else if locally permitted. An example is the UK PMD which is accepted by France if you are flying an Annex 1 plane. The Channel Islands accept the IMCR so it makes sense that you can fly there with one, otherwise it would be obviously dumb
Interesting, so the french CAA approved it?
It is not French airspace, for the purpose of this, apparently.
The Irish question still stands although Dublinpilot seems to be clear that the answer is No.
Snoopy wrote:
Just a gut feeling but my guess is that it’s about airspace. UK airspace is London FIR & Scottish FIR. If a part of Scottish FIR airspace cuts into the ROI, it’s still UK airspace, isn’t it? ROI & UK / Scottland have set it up that way so they’ll honor it.
The “airspace” of a country is a bit ambiguous (maybe not to lawyers but to us mere pilots). It can refer either to the airspace over the territory (including territorial waters) of the country or to the airspace where the country is responsible for Air Traffic Services.
According to the Chicago convention each country has complete sovereignty over its territorial airspace. The IR(R) is not an ICAO-compliant rating so it is clear that it can’t be used over the parts of the Republic of Ireland which happens to be in the Scottish FIR without the approval of the Irish CAA.
When a country (UK) has delegated responsibility for ATS over some of its territory to another country (France), then I assume that matters like the IR(R) would be mentioned in the agreement. On the other hand, the Channel Islands are not properly part of the UK so strictly speaking according to the CAP 804 quote the IR(R) is not valid for flights there. (What a mess.)
An interesting question is to what extent the IR(R) can be used over international waters as they are also not part of the UK!
Peter wrote:
The Irish question still stands although Dublinpilot seems to be clear that the answer is No.
To be clear, I’m clear that the IMCR can not be used in the Republic of Ireland. There is no doubt over that.
I’m less clear about the parts of the Scottish FIR which cross over into the Republic of Ireland. But I wouldn’t have thought that there was much involved. Surely it isn’t much more than a couple of NM so easy to avoid the question?
The Crown Dependencies (or at least the Isle of Man) makes an effort to have its ANO and airspace aligned with the rules of the UK. In the past the Isle of Man CAA have issued documents for things such as accepting LAA permit aircraft, PMDs and I bet they’ve also accepted the IMCR (I haven’t looked for that one).
(Interestingly, our glider towing exemption states we may use a non-ICAO aircraft of any registry – it doesn’t limit us to using a G-reg permit aircraft).
Interesting, so the french CAA approved it? According to UK CAA without such approval it’s not allowed.
I don’t know the exact mechanics,
Jersey Aeroclub offers IMCr training, it will daft if they can’t use it?
https://www.jerseyaeroclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/March-2020-members-newsletter.pdf
IMCR recommended AD minima are 1500m & 600ft, most people use it to depart & arrive under IFR in SVFR conditions and leave ATZ or CTR, you can do that on SVFR using PPL…there is a minority who use it down to legal AD system minima
On the other hand, the Channel Islands are not properly part of the UK so strictly speaking according to the CAP 804 quote the IR(R) is not valid for flights there. (What a mess.)
CAA did limit the scope of IR(R) in EASA licences to UK as such it’s not valid in other EASA states like Ireland, France or Sweden…in the other hand, Jersey is not in EASA and they can accept it in their airspace
I have IMCR on UK legacy PPL and IRR on UKFCL PPL, the latter is “limited to UK”, I think Jersey can accept it like they do for PMD, NPPL, LAA, PtF…
IMCR recommended AD minima are 1500m & 600ft,
The 1500m is mandatory.
The rest is not.
