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How does flying with IMCR / IR(R) *really* work?

Probably should have noticed and read Graham’s response before pressing send on the last one. Those are all good points I need to think about.

Lee
Barton EGCB, United Kingdom

Lee wrote:

Being able to fly in Class A and obtaining end-to-end clearance without having to beg for each transit en-route is enough for me to warrant the CBIR.

Even with the IR you won’t get access to much of the Class A that you’re probably after access to, and you won’t get end-to-end clearance unless your route stays in Class A the whole way which means it is either very long or somewhat contrived, either laterally or vertically and probably both, compared to the optimal routing.

You will not, for instance, be able to fly from Barton to Biggin Hill at FL80 in a straight line no matter what qualifications you have.

Have a look at some of the videos posted by @pilotrobbie. I think one that I recall was Stapleford to Kemble on an IFR flightplan through Class A. I commend him for his determination and his spirit of adventure in doing it, but as a flight it really is quite contrived and that route is far more efficiently flown OCAS regardless of your qualifications.

But to go back to your original question, think of the IR(R) as changing how weather affects you. It makes no difference to what airspace you can access, although you can now access Class D and Class E under IFR as well as under VFR.

I find the IR(R) very useful, and I suggest that when you get it you make some use of it and see how it works for you. Ignore anyone who tells you that it is “for emergencies only” or “just to get you out of trouble”. If you don’t use it then your skills won’t remain current.

Last Edited by Graham at 24 Aug 17:35
EGLM & EGTN

The UK has an extensive Class G airspace where IFR/IMC is allowed non-radio and without any ATC clearance or flight plan. This airspace system is something no other country (AFAIK) in Europe has.

The IMCR came about c. 1969 as a way to improve safety of flying in this system. Its privileges are practically same as those of the IR (except tighter visibility requirements for takeoff and landing) and to prevent a “political explosion” (“amateur pilots are not allowed to share airspace used by professionals”) among the airlines,
the airline pilot unions, the FTOs, etc, the IMCR was limited to Class D-G only. This dovetails nicely with most UK CAS being Class A. If most UK CAS was Class D, as it is in say France FL120-FL200, the IMCR could have never existed. That is also why it could never have been adopted by rest of Europe – it would have been an “IR by the back door”.

The next thing is that the UK has no service provision for traffic which is OCAS. In practical terms CAS traffic is Eurocontrol IFR traffic in Class A, handled mostly by London Control and Scottish Control. LC won’t even handle Class D in most cases nowadays, and won’t handle short sections in Class A (except “exam” traffic). OCAS traffic gets bits of service from radar units like Farnborough, but on a nice day you probably get nothing.

And the Eurocontrol-IFR implied whole route clearance (which is standard around the world) is not implemented below the London/Scottish control level. This alone means that the only clearance you get is for the immediate bit of Class D. The UK also fails to implement the ICAO requirement of a continuous clearance through adjoining CAS so e.g. a clearance in Bournemouth Class D can be refused when you approach Solent Class D, which creates a totally ridiculous situation where you have to get out of the former airspace really fast.

The end result of all this is that you are doing a VFR flight, even if you are in IMC. And telling ATC you are in IMC (therefore IFR) has no effect. So you have to take care of yourself. If you stay in Class G, all well and good, if you need to transit Class D then you have to get a clearance, but you might not get it, so you must have a Plan B ready. Personally I tend to just stay in G, which avoids rapid changes which can result in mistakes, and the same unit you were talking to will MOR you and the CAA will bust you.

So why talk to anybody if a transit of CAS is not needed? Only to get a traffic service, which might save your skin one day. But probably not because > 50% flies with transponders off, or Mode A, due to the crazy CAA busting policy. A radar unit will see a primary contact only on the other traffic. The risk of a mid-air is much less in IMC because most GA cannot / does not fly in IMC. Also, empirically, most non-txp traffic flies at low level, below 2000ft.

So, one flies around on a preplanned route, planned for Class G only in most cases, sometimes (if Plan B is easy, and safe from the getting busted POV) in Class D.

The departure can be declared VFR or IFR; the airport usually doesn’t care.

The arrival likewise but for safety you should not do “cowboy stuff”. DIY approaches are legal in the UK but you have to plan them and execute them correctly, for obvious reasons. Use an IAP if available; you can fly it legally. Just say you are IFR on the 1st call and request the IAP.

Due to low level Class A, it is rare to be able to fly VMC on top which makes IFR hazardous in the winter; you collect ice and cannot escape it by climbing. So you need a plane with ice protection. A clearance to enter Class A will not be given except in an emergency and a lot of paperwork is likely to follow.

Flight plans are pointless because in the UK system they go only to the two airports. Eurocontrol gets all “ZYI” flight plans and distributes them but the UK FP system throws them away except for the two ends.

With the full IR you can fly around the UK like this – at FL090+ in general. You may need ice protection, you will need oxygen. I have a load of full-IFR videos here many with the ATC talk.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Thank you Graham. You’ve been given me much to think about. I’ll go and take a look at some of Robbie’s videos. They might well answer a few of the questions I have and further my understanding about what it means to fly with IR(R) and IR in the UK. Clearly my present understanding is lacking somewhat, hence why I initially reached out and asked the question.

Lee
Barton EGCB, United Kingdom

Graham wrote:

Even with the IR you won’t get access to much of the Class A that you’re probably after access to, and you won’t get end-to-end clearance unless your route stays in Class A the whole way which means it is either very long or somewhat contrived, either laterally or vertically and probably both, compared to the optimal routing.

@Lee, have to agree with Graham here – if you fly an aircraft below FL200, then in many parts of the UK you will not be able to stay in CAS end-to-end.
For example, see the reports by Peter when he flies from Shoreham to the West and back – there is no CAS for large areas in the west, so you are still screwed.
And yes, you will get CAS entry into LTMA if you depart from underneath it on a flightplan, but for some routes it is useless, especially in the UK.
Even worse if you fly an a/c with MTOW of 2000kg+ on an IFR flight plant – you will always pay for the full flight, while in some cases you receive radar control service for a tiny fraction of the flight.
In continental Europe the situation is better, plus you DO need CB-IR to fly there in the airways in IFR legally. :)

I think if you fly with an IR instructor (or just an experienced IR pilot) after you’ve got your IR(R), they’ll help you use the rating in the best way.

EGTR

plus you DO need CB-IR to fly there in the airways in IFR legally

You can fly VFR in “French airways” – they are Class E below FL120. It is the airspace class that matters.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I think if you fly with an IR instructor (or just an experienced IR pilot) after you’ve got your IR(R), they’ll help you use the rating in the best way.

I completely agree. I’ve been asking around for a potential mentor, but no one seems to fly IFR in my neck of the woods. Most likely an artifact of operating out of a grass strip with no provision for instrument landings.

Lee
Barton EGCB, United Kingdom

Thanks Peter. I’ll go and check out some more of your resources.

Lee
Barton EGCB, United Kingdom

I’ve experienced that myself – “.. on route ABCDE – FGHIJ …” twice had response from Farnborough – “unfamiliar with IFR reporting points, please provide the visual references”, while I was flying IFR! Both times were Farnborough East.

Haha, this must be one of those fun eccentricities of the UK ATC system. I wonder if UK IR rating exams have to be conducted with reference to visual reporting points which the candidate obviously can’t see and aren’t referenced in a “proper” IFR GPS. Has SkyDemon become that pervasive?

Unless I’m very mistaken this is what Farnborough East LARS looks at when they are on the other end of the radio.

I haven’t got the desire to work out what each symbol is but I’m pretty sure I see the VORs. Looking at it motorway junctions are probably your best common reference when talking to a LARS unit.

Back in the days before EASA and perhaps before JAA countries like France were able to fly VFR on top on a PPL. This required training on the use of VORs and NDBs in order to get the PPL.
The UK did not have this facility and therefore the PPL did not have instrument training as part of its curriculum.
I lost count of the number of UK pilots who could not understand the concept of a hole being needed to.go up through the clouds and a hole to get back down again.
The IMC rating, as told to me by UK instructors, provided the training to go up through the cloud, fly VFR on top without getting lost and descend back down through the cloud and see to land.
It’s a worthwhile rating and many French pilots wondered why we couldn’t fly up through cloud and descend back down through it.
Then there was a change in regulation (JAA I believe) which said that an extra 5 hours should be added to the PPL curriculum for VSV training (vol sans visibility – flight without visibility).
Okay we thought, this might well allow us to climb up through cloud on departure and back down through it at destination which is all many of us wanted. But it was not to be JAA and subsequently EASA made promises of an All Weather Rating but arguments raged that the UK rating wasn’t enough in their particular country while the UK CAA were under pressure to safeguard the IMC. For years the argument went on and on until in the end the French DGAC decided to create its own French IR. This forced EASA and the NAAs to finally agree to a CBIR and the IMC would be kept for the UK on the form of the IR(r).
The IMC IR(R) still meets its original intention and in fact it does better than that provides useful experience towards a full IR through competance which is what the CBIR is.In Europe the EIR and now the BIR were introduced to do a similar thing.
I have often flown around the UK IFR and below FL100 always on Eurocontrol flight plans.
The main difference I have noticed is that the FPL seems to go by the wayside even sometimes before take off. The route one is sent on does not resemble the route filed in any way unless one is arriving or departing from, in my case France and even then there is often a tone in the ATSOs voice which says you are doing something strange. Routes inland you have to keep reminding ATS that you are approaching the waypoint that they have cleared you to in order to get onward clearance and when they give you a change of frequency you need to renew your request for one of four services from basic through deconfliction to procedure. Sometimes the service you request cannot be provided due to too high a workload.
However, I have always got where I want to go, eventually. But one difference I have noted is that French pilots seem to have a different attitude to ATSOs than UK pilots seem to have.

Last Edited by gallois at 25 Aug 07:52
France
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