Not if using the 1000ft above an obstacle within 5nm.
The Q is: what else can they do? What is the actual height of traffic there? Nearly all LTMA traffic is ~8000ft above the 2500ft CAS base, but it could be lower in say OEI cases.
Peter wrote:
Not if using the 1000ft above an obstacle within 5nm.
I think there is a problem with the other one as well, Low Flying (https://www.caa.co.uk/our-work/make-a-report-or-complaint/report-something/report-a-potential-breach-of-aviation-law/), “In general, except when necessary for take-off or landing, an aircraft should be 1,000 ft over a built-up area or otherwise 500ft from people, vehicles, vessels and structures.”
That “1000ft over a built-up area” is I think unachievable at least right now, if you floow VRPs.
The Q is: what else can they do?
Perhaps what the FAA did here in LA: establish a VFR corridor that goes right over the airport, LAX in this case. There’s obviously no CAT traffic there, the heavy iron is a few thousand feet below. Makes for some nice views too.
PS: I have bad memories of flying this LLR when I still lived in the UK. Totally anal airspace design.
According to Google, M56 Junction 10 is at 53°20’02.0"N 2°34’41.6"W
According to https://www.dcode.fr/earth-elevation, these co-ordinates are at 256 feet. i.e you have a band of 44 feet in which you are neither too low (1000 ft AGL) nor too high (1300 ft).
A mile or so to the West, I get 259 feet.
A mile or so to the East, I get 249 feet.
On the other hand, the 1000 foot rule is for overflying built-up areas, so some random points:
Appleton: 240 feet
Dudlow’s Green: 220 feet
Lowton: 150 feet
Newton le Willows: 102 feet
Northwich: 105 feet
Hartford: 164 feet
Sandiway: 253 feet
Barnton: 163 feet
Golborne: 141 feet
In short, it is probably currently possible to fly the LLR legally, provided your altimeter is calibrated considerably better than the +/-50ft usually specified in the POH, and you spend most of the time watching it like a hawk.
Some areas are probably more built-up than they were when the lane was created i.e. less in the way of landing options. There is probably some critical L:D below which the glide-clear rule cannot be obeyed all the time. It would be interesting to know what it is.
Nice to see the CAA improving this somewhat sketchy bit of airspace.
Peter wrote:
What is the actual height of traffic there? Nearly all LTMA traffic is ~8000ft above the 2500ft CAS base, but it could be lower in say OEI cases.
The CAA consultation says that the ILS GP to the most commonly used runway at Liverpool passes over the MLLC at 2000’.
Airborne_Again wrote:
The CAA consultation says that the ILS GP to the most commonly used runway at Liverpool passes over the MLLC at 2000’.
Yes, turn to final is right above it (IF is just to the west of the the corridor).
’Not if using the 1000ft above an obstacle within 5nm."
Does this apply to VFR traffic as a rule, not a suggestion?
I don’t think flying below the MSA is a criminal offence per ANO, in the way flying < 500ft (fixed wing) from man-made objects etc on the ground would be. UK doesn’t have the EASA “500ft-everywhere” rule.
It is just that the CAA preaches XYZ and then makes it impossible to follow it 
Silvaire is dead right about the right way to do it, but for some reason the UK doesn’t do overhead transits except ones granted on the spot. So you can get overhead Stansted EGSS if you ask, but such a route would never be officially published. Maybe something in the SID/STARs…
172driver wrote:
Perhaps what the FAA did here in LA: establish a VFR corridor that goes right over the airport, LAX in this case. There’s obviously no CAT traffic there, the heavy iron is a few thousand feet below. Makes for some nice views too.
A North-South route might work for Liverpool (09/27) but I think not Manchester (05/23). It would be nice to have the option, but I think a VFR route has to be low as the cloudbase round here is often 2-3000 feet.
