James_Chan wrote:
If one intentionally drops out of contiguous CAS
I wouldn’t consider accepting an IFR clearance that leads you out of CAS to be intentionally dropping out of contiguous CAS.
tmo wrote:
Because in class G you are not required to use, or even have, a radio?
If IFR, you are required to have radio even in class G. SERA.6001(a)(7)
Thank you for correcting me, AA.
James_Chan wrote:
I think it’s still better to re-align with international best practice and remove the mis
Nicely said – but what is international best practice?
The problem of getting back from uncontrolled into controlled airspace under IFR is basically existent in every country. The US handles this problem by having only very small lateral pieces of class G airspace (so that practically IFR flights happen in controlled airspace) with exceptions in quite remote areas where no-one really cares what pilots do…
In Germany for exactly that reason IFR in airspace G is practically impossible, because ATC won’t let you back in controlled airspace at all.
Same as chflyer, I would not accept a clearance into uncontrolled airspace if it is not my final descent into the destination airfield. “Unable” is the magic word here.
I would not accept a clearance into uncontrolled airspace if it is not my final descent into the destination airfield. “Unable” is the magic word here.
The “problem” is that, in the UK, you would need to go everywhere at FL200+ to remain in CAS.
The US addresses this elegantly by having Class E almost everywhere, down to a very low level, which places IFR flights into an almost continuous “CAS” (while equally elegantly giving VFR traffic a load of “OCAS” airspace all the way to 17999ft) but you need to provide ATC services in that considerable airspace volume, and the UK doesn’t want to pay for that.
Yes in the US you can “join airways” from 1200ft agl allmost anywhere but ATS have all hardware funded on a huge federal budget to offer that, in the UK you have to pay for the privileges (e.g. monthly parking in Farnbrough or oneoff pay to GASCO course one day 
)
Malibuflyer wrote:
The problem of getting back from uncontrolled into controlled airspace under IFR is basically existent in every country.
Not in Scandinavia. (Certainly not in Sweden, and I believe not in Norway or Finland either). If you have a clearance it remains valid even if you enter class G. (Of course it is not valid in the class G airspace, but it will be valid again as soon as you reenter controlled airspace.) Also, Swedish ATC is not allowed to issue a clearance that takes you out of CAS unless you request it (typically by having a flight planned route taking you out of CAS) or if you specifically approve of it (the design of some TMAs are such that from certain directions it will shorten your arrival/departure if you accept a descent/climb OCAS).
Peter wrote:
while equally elegantly giving VFR traffic a load of “OCAS” airspace all the way to 17999ft
Errrr – sort of, but not really. With a few localized exceptions in very remote parts of the country, all this is Class E and therefore controlled. That said, you do not need a clearance to operate within Class E as a VFR flight, you do however need the clearance to enter it when operating under IFR. A bit of a hybrid airspace, really.
172driver wrote:
With a few localized exceptions in very remote parts of the country, all this is Class E and therefore controlled
I think the point was that ATC contact in Class E is not required or typical for VFR flights.
I don’t hear the term ‘controlled airspace’ used often in the US, that seemed to go away when ICAO airspace definitions were adopted by FAA years ago. The terminology more often used in the US is the specific type of airspace, Class A through Class E, and non-airline pilots know the attributes of each. That memorization is simplified by not having any of the CTR, ATZ etc classifications, or whatever they are called.
172driver wrote:
Errrr – sort of, but not really. With a few localized exceptions in very remote parts of the country, all this is Class E and therefore controlled. That said, you do not need a clearance to operate within Class E as a VFR flight, you do however need the clearance to enter it when operating under IFR. A bit of a hybrid airspace, really.
Yes, and a key point for VFR flyers as well is that one is subject to class E weather minima, which is 3 SM visibility and 500, 1000 and 2000 ft below/above/horizontal from clouds up to 10,000 ft MSL!
