London Control in the south.
Manchester Control in the middle.
Scottish Control in the north and Scotland.
Scottish Control are much better in that you can enter Class G for a long way and then re-enter Class A with no issue, and they will provide a radar service all the way.
I should also add to my earlier post that it’s fascinating to speculate on why the UK system has developed in specificially that way. I think one factor is the UK IMC Rating, which excludes IFR in Class A and this fits together perfectly with Class A being essentially inaccessible to PPLs (even PPLs with the IMCR) which “protects” the commercial traffic from what is regarded by some as less well trained pilots. If the IMCR included IFR in Class A, it would be basically equivalent to an IR and various issues would need to be faced which are presently conveniently avoided. And the converse applies: if the UK CAS was mostly say Class D, the IMC Rating could have never been established because it would have been an “IR by the back door with just 15hrs training”… (which is why most of Europe could never have an “IMCR”). So it all hangs together both ways.
But that’s just the UK. It would be good to get input for other countries.
France is a bit like the USA – lots of Class E.
I assume the clearance limit for the clearance from London Control would indicate that as well. So I should be able to find the clearance limit on the map and then start calling ahead via London Information. Is that right?
No… the loss of IFR clearance (upon a handover from London Control) is not stated. You just have to “know” it. They do nowadays sometimes remind you to remain clear of CAS, however.
My earlier point is that this stuff cannot be autorouted. If you were to do that, you may as well combine the IFR autorouter with the Jepp Flitestar VFR autorouting function, which is really impressive to watch running, but I have never met anybody who uses it. I bet nobody here even knew it existed?
Thanks Peter for the exhaustive explanation! That should be mandatory reading before every (IFR) trip to the UK.
ATC services in CAS are very well organised, very professional, and are funded by the 2000kg+ enroute charges (and maybe stuff like big airport landing fees?).
AFAIK, most airports are struggling to make a profit at all, so the most they will fund is their approach and ground radar service (talking for Germany only). And those costs they recover (partially) through approach and landing fees which are also collected from aircraft below 2000kg! Some regional airports lower their cost by replacing costly DFS personnel (who have lost their monopoly following privatisation) with cheaper services from Austrocontrol and Poland and Czech republic.
The situation in Germany is quite different from the UK. I try to summarise:
German constitution values the protection of the individual very highly. People who can not look after themselves will be looked after by the state (ideally…). This applies as well to pilots who can not look outside for traffic: If you can’t see outside your window, someone else will be looking for you to make sure you won’t fly against something. Since radar doesn’t reach everywhere, you be able to maintain your own visual separation (= fly VFR) where radar can’t see you, i.e. in airspace G. To make matters worse, you not not even supposed to fly VFR there – other than for takeoff and landing – because there is a general rule that all air traffic has to fly above 2000ft GND. This has several reasons, among them “deconfliction” with the, now rarely encountered, military low-level traffic, noise abatement and protection of congested areas that are almost everywhere in some parts of the country. Since airspace G maximally extends to 2500ft AGL and you shall observe semi-circular altitudes/levels, there should not be much air traffic in uncontrolled airspace at all.
Above the airspace G “vacuum” comes a large volume of airspace E that covers most of the country between 1000-2500ft AGL and FL100 (higher in the mountainous south). Until now, almost everything is allowed to fly there, from airliner via airship, balloon, formation of U.S. fighter planes, microlights, gliders and even parasails. With and without engine, with and without radio, with and without transponder. Some VFR, some IFR, maybe even some remotely piloted ones… Normal rules of the air apply to all aircraft, e.g. powered aircraft must yield right of way to unpowered. Flying IFR at a typical level for light types in this airspace in good weather means that the same lookout has to be maintained as when flying VFR. The same while climbing and descending through this airspace to higher levels – an A380 must fly around every glider he encounters and give way to every C152 that has the right of way. Which can be very difficult on a sunny Sunday afternoon, when 90 percent of the 7,700 gliders registered here populate the sky together. ATC can only warn you of traffic they themselves can see, and on such a day, all primary targets will be suppressed on their radar screens. I write this because a lot of IFR flyers seem to be completely unaware that even if you are under radar control, it remains your responsibility to look outside.
Regarding flight information service: In my opinion, this is quite good compared to other countries. During weekdays with only a handful of aircraft on the frequency, you can expect to get good traffic information and even airspace alerts. But during a sunny weekend, trying to call Frankfurt Information is more difficult than to get your call in with Heathrow Approach. And useless, because they will not have the capacity to look after you. If you can fly IFR on such a day, file for FL110 or higher and climb there at the best rate you can squeeze out of your engine!
Peter, what is the kind of airspace (advisory airspace?) in the UK which is type “G” ouside controlled airspace but requires a flightplan and two way communication?
I found this in the UK AIP:
3.2 Communications
3.2.1 An IFR flight operating outside controlled airspace but within or into areas, or along routes, designated by the appropriate ATS
authority in accordance with ICAO Annex 2, paragraph 3.3.1.2 (a) or (b), shall maintain a listening watch on the appropriate radio
frequency and establish two-way communication, as necessary, with the air traffic services unit providing flight information
service.
Note: See note following ICAO Annex 2, paragraph 3.6.5.1.
3.3 Position Reports
3.3.1 An IFR flight operating outside controlled airspace and required by the appropriate ATS authority to:
• submit a flight plan,
• maintain a listening watch on the appropriate radio frequency and establish two-way communication, as necessary, with
the air traffic services unit providing flight information service,
shall report position as specified in ICAO Annex 2, paragraph 3.6.3 for controlled flights. Italic
ICAO Annex 2, paragraph 3.3.1.2 (a) or (b) says the following:
3.3.1 Submission of a flight plan
3.3.1.1 Information relative to an intended flight or portion of a flight, to be provided to air traffic services units, shall be in the form of a flight plan.
3.3.1.2 A flight plan shall be submitted prior to operating:
a) any flight or portion thereof to be provided with air traffic control service;
b) any IFR flight within advisory airspace;
Are those perhaps routings over open water (Irish Sea or North Atlantic) ?
what is the kind of airspace (advisory airspace?) in the UK which is type “G” ouside controlled airspace but requires a flightplan and two way communication?
Never heard of it 
There is this VFR route (see the white text box) which might be what the AIP refers to but I have never heard of anybody using it because, ahem, Class G is Class G! And obviously if you are flying to France you need to use the radio and file a flight plan, so… I don’t see the point of that route at all.
Maybe what they are saying is that a crossing service is available through that danger area up to FL100, but you can get a crossing (in theory) through any danger area if you call up the appropriate unit responsible for it. Most of the time it isn’t worth the bother, but London Info can get you a frequency to call if it isn’t published readily and you really want it.
G is uncontrolled airspace per definition.
ICAO Annex II
3.6.5.1 An aircraft operated as a controlled flight shall maintain continuous air-ground voice communication watch on the appropriate communication channel of, and establish two-way communication as necessary with, the appropriate air traffic control unit, except as may be prescribed by the appropriate ATS authority in respect of aircraft forming part of aerodrome traffic at a controlled aerodrome.
The only odd UK only thing that fits is ATZ or MATZ of towered airports. They are class G, but if they got a control tower like Coventry, you need to be in two-way coms.
What happens to ATZ in SERA? Will some get replaced by Class D like German towered Airports?
I’m sure they won’t be part of SERA.
ATZ is defined in SERA, but the UK uses it different than everyone else. I know of no other country that has controlled airports without controlled airspace of some kind. (Class E or higher) (Poland has a similar system for their MIL side of things, looks like they adopted the UK way when the wall fell.)
Most (nearly all) countries lets the airspace class define what service you provide in any given volume of airspace, with the UK being the odd one out. During my flight to Aero 2014 we heard a G-reg aircraft repeatedly asking Langen for “Basic Service”, with the FIS operator kindly telling them repeatedly that the service on offer (like the rest of the world) was FIS in the relevant class of airspace. (VFR flight in class E on that occasion)
Eurocontrol has 39 member states which are all fully sovereign countries with over 100 years of aviation history and the procedures that come with it and — very important — their own military with its influence and requirements.
The national military forces in Europe are the difference and I agree that this is a significant issue. Where is that European Self Defence Force anyway? 
Otherwise, in my mind there is no reason for EU international aviation to be any less well run: the US does not have one government, it has 50 state governments that operate independently to an arguably greater degree than EU countries (unlike in Europe they don’t fund the Federal government, or vice versa). But the states cooperate through the Federal bureaucracy on interstate commerce and a few other basic things, including aviation, and not on nonsense for which cooperation has little utility.
I can’t for instance see any reason in 2014 that aviation charts for the relatively small area of continental Europe can’t be issued by a single governmental body, and in a single format. They can’t manage that in the real world service of safety but somehow they can manage EASA part M, which is bizarrely proscriptive for GA and will take decades to unwind.
the US does not have one government, it has 50 state governments that operate independently to an arguably greater degree than EU countries
The US states are not sovereign states and they have no jurisdiction over aviation, that is federal law in the US. There are many other things in the US that are chaotic because the states or even the municipalities have jurisdiction — or my favorite: there is a struggle who is competent. Gay marriage is one example.
I can’t for instance see any reason in 2014 that aviation charts for relatively small area of continental Europe can’t be issued by a single governmental body, and in a single format.
Every country would have to agree to unifying that but how do you get them to agree to something that is not perceived as being a problem? Europe has no leadership, the EU Commission serves as a mere secretary. It’s the governments that have the final word in everything (with participation by the EU Parliament). There are initiatives that will lead to more uniform approaches in aviation (EASA + SES – Single European Sky) but over a longer period of time and with a lot of collateral damage.
Democracy is not efficient. Dictatorship can be.
I know of no other country that has controlled airports without controlled airspace of some kind
I think this is a grey area (Class G is Class G, after all) which nobody wants to to dig too deep into, but I don’t think anybody has ever been prosecuted for just flying through an ATZ (stupid as it may be).
Even less so for a MATZ. A MATZ has an ATZ within it, and that (the ATZ) is the bit which you ought to avoid. Avoiding the rest of the MATZ is just good airmanship. In UK PPL training one is taught to call up the unit for a “MATZ penetration” but that is just nonsense since it implies you are asking for a clearance, yet no clearance can possibly be given. I just call up the unit and give them my route; they can see me on radar and they will tell me if they want me to move.
Also only a small % of UK Class G airports have ATC. Numerically, most are AFIS or A/G so the staff have explicitly no control over anybody airborne.
I can’t for instance see any reason in 2014 that aviation charts for the relatively small area of continental Europe can’t be issued by a single governmental body, and in a single format
It’s because every European country runs its charts department as a profit centre. It is only with IFR charts that they have lost control, but what is an “IFR chart” anyway? You could get the required data out of the AIP, etc.
During my flight to Aero 2014 we heard a G-reg aircraft repeatedly asking Langen for “Basic Service”, with the FIS operator kindly telling them repeatedly that the service on offer (like the rest of the world) was FIS in the relevant class of airspace.
That’s just crap UK PPL training. The schools have no commercial mandate to train a pilot who can fly from A to B in the UK, never mind abroad. It’s really basic (no pun intended). However the UK is not alone in this; I happen to know how much hand-holding is required in fly-outs in certain other N European countries. The PPL is not fit for the purpose anywhere in Europe.
In Europe, all airspace is “owned” by the military and the civilians get what is left.
Are you referring to “continental Europe”?
