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Eurocontrol Fees / Route Charges

1) If you are planning a flight and you only expect to need an IFR clearance for an approach at destination, can you fly 400 NM VFR ‘for free’ and then get an IFR clearance for 10 minutes and only get charged for that last part?

Yes. This is why VFR is not allowed in various airspaces, most notably a large part of NE France in the Class D above FL120 King Air traffic would often be flying VFR at say FL190.

bq 2) I’ve read some weird topics here about IFR flying the UK, that an IFR flight plan doesn’t really guarantee you’ll actually be treated as an IFR airplane by ATC. Not sure if this is related to the Eurcontrol ATC fee discussion at all?

Indeed – see e.g. here. But if you are in CAS then it is much better – like normal IFR. If you are flying > 1999kg in the UK, OCAS, you would be a fool to file an IFR FP for it

3) Is there an online calculator somewhere to calculate IFR Eurocontrol fees? Their website allows you to download a database and an a program, but I can’t seem to get it to work. Seems like a fairly archaic piece of software….

I don’t know about a calculator but there is a document with the formula. See further back in this thread (multiple identical threads merged).

I wouldn’t shy away from IMC weather to shoot an approach

Being IFR for short periods, or brief “pop up” IFR clearances, reportedly do not trigger charges.

I’d be quite sensitive to a 100 eur / flying hour extra charge if I can avoid it…

Most would be, which is why a) there aren’t many twins > 1999kg flying today in Europe and b) a lot of them fly “VFR” which works well especially in the UK where (see link above) nobody really cares, Class G, what your flight conditions are. One used to get charged for night flight too (see posts further back at the start) because night was IFR but that apparently stopped.

Generate IFR routings in Foreflight and file them as VFR. Sound professional on the radio and ask for controlled VFR. Most countries have „INFO“ frequencies and if you give them your route they’ll arrange airspace transits.

The workload will be significantly higher. Also you need a rock solid briefing on enroute notams, mil areas, mil activity, etc. because ATC are under no obligation to help you. I used to do long trips VFR but would not do it again. Also a lot of airspace is not accessible e.g. above Class D, the Swiss Class C over the Alps (FL130+), etc. VFR is a great tool in the toolbox, for sightseeing, getting around ATC strikes, etc, but for long distance will be a hassle. See the videos here for examples of ATC hassles when VFR. You also need to know VRPs because ATC are entitled to wash their hands of you by sending you to a VRP.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

digits wrote:

Reducing the MTOW for this plane likely won’t help. Eurocontrol rules say they use the MTOW of the model, not the individual plane.

Then what’s the point of the various 1999 kg STCs…?

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

When I used to fly in an Aztec France to UK and back we used to often get an invoice from Eurocontrol even though we flew VFR on a VFR FPL. We just sent it back and told them we were VFR. The accounts dept seemed to accept that.
But even IFR I don’t remember it ever being as high as €100 per hour. IIRC though some routes are more expensive than others. I’m pretty sure there is a formula on Eurocontrol website for calculating these.

France

digits wrote:

Reducing the MTOW for this plane likely won’t help. Eurocontrol rules say they use the MTOW of the model, not the individual plane.

The “common belief” around here is that it is the MTOW of the individual planes. That’s why we have STCs to reduce MTOW to 1999kg, why some planes can be bought with MTOW 1999kg or with higher MTOW, etc. If you have contrary information, please quote it exactly and show a reference.

ELLX

Reducing the MTOW for this plane likely won’t help. Eurocontrol rules say they use the MTOW of the model, not the individual plane.

That is not true. Eurocontrol will charge according to the individual MTOW value written in your fleet declaration. Actually they seem to use 1 digit values only cutting further decimals, so 1.8 tons, 1.9 tons, 2.0 tons… A grey area are ferry permits with increased MTOW for a single mission.

But reducing the MTOW is an engineering task. You have to rewrite a few POH pages, have that approved etc. This does not make any sense at all for a single trip with a few hours flown in Europe.

www.ing-golze.de
EDAZ

VFR long distance in Europe isn’t that bad. Especially with silly high IFR min alts in mind.
Just planned LGIO to LOAV VFR <FL100, a 5 hour x-country, and it takes minutes using Foreflight. NOTAMS layer helps too.

LGIO 39,891/20,643 DIMIS 42,016/20,222 ALELU PODOB VP030 SIVLA BAREB LOAV

always learning
LO__, Austria

Sure, Eastern Europe ist easy VFR. Just like IFR.

The point and advantage of flying IFR lies more in other countries.

I personally avoid coordinates; only database waypoints, even if that makes the route around some airspace a tiny bit longer. That assures that the avionics understand the route and also that no ARO or ATC unit will ever complain about the route.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

Sure VFR is doable.

Especially in a de-iced aircraft

IFR is a lot easier and safer (due to IMC being much easier to avoid) though, but the route charges system is a negative incentive to safety.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

VFR long distance in Europe isn’t that bad

It’s Croatia & Austria I gather VFR above FL100 is tricky in Italy, Switzerland, Sapin and UK but piece of cake elsewhere?

If you are flying VFR on the base of general airspace (Charlie or Delta) life tend to get is easier but higher in FL130-FL180 things may become very reserved with invitation only

I have done lot of “this VFR” as I only fly IFR in UK & France but for for other countries I need FAA IR to operate N-reg IFR (I can still fly clouds or an ILS minima if I have to)

How does one handle a request to descend from FL100 to 3kft? I recall telling one controller “unable due to IMC bellow” (he was not impressed, maybe as it was CAVOK in his place), he sent me on 50nm detour but latter offered 5nm shortcut of his sector and next handover

I had this happening two times, on my first time I descended at -1000fpm and it did mess up all my planing and ears as well, in the other hand, while Spain, I got a privilege to fly VFR in Alpha as that is what ATC wanted and “he is telling me to do it”, you don’t get to do that elsewhere

I don’t think it’s a walk in the park like in Croatia but YMMV

Last Edited by Ibra at 16 Aug 09:26
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Route charges (the topic) do not apply if you are VFR.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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