Hi,
I’m recently fantasizing to improve the dispatch rate for VFR Alps crossings by getting checked out on the clubs’ C182 Turbo RG.
The hourly rate is higher, but given the higher airspeed, a trip to, say, Turin, will only be marginally more expensive.
My reasoning is that with an aircraft that can fly up to FL200 and with oxygen on board, I can rule out a great number of days that would be unflyable with a C172 or PA28 (the A/C I currently rent) due to low level low vis, mountain tops in cloud etc. I’d be able to overfly nasty weather in the mountains, given I can ensure departure and take-off in VMC, obviously (which applies to any flight “VFR over the top”).
The only downside (in contrast to IFR, which I don’t do) I see is the awkward airspace in Northern Italy and the required steep descent after the crossing. Any further thoughts?
On another note, how much effort will the transition to the C182 be? For now, I’ve booked a lesson to see how it goes.
A great great aircraft 
It’s not difficult to fly, I’ve transitioned from C172 and PA28. It is extremely nose heavy and requires a lot of force on landing and the landing gear is rather delicate. The landings can be a challenge sometimes because the very long steel tube gears are very jumpy. I usually fly 155KTAS at ca. FL120 and 165KTAS at FL170. It flies 175KTAS at FL200. My fuel consumption is 44l/h in average.
I’m not so positive about your Alps crossings under VFR. Normally there is bad weather on one of the sides and that precludes VFR. Also as you said, the Italians can make it difficult for VFR. So I don’t see a lot of situations where a TR182 would get you over the Alps under VFR where a PA28 wouldn’t.
Guess this is the kind of weather you have in mind. This was at FL150.
If you move up to a more capable aircraft, the airspace restrictions for VFR is going to be one of your major limitations.
In order to get in VMC on Top, you usually need to climb or descent through a layer of clouds on one of the sides of the Alps.
Guess it’s time to get your IR enroute rating :-)
If you move up to a more capable aircraft, the airspace restrictions for VFR is going to be one of your major limitations.
For Italy, fine – but if I draw a line from EDLP to Split, I don’t see any airspace limitations there… Also in terms of range, that’s a trip that seems doable in one leg in a 182, whereas in any lesser plane, I would (and I did) split (no pun intended) this into two legs.
Guess it’s time to get your IR enroute rating :-)
Yeah, I know. I try to hold this off as long as I can. But eventually, I guess I will succumb.
I see is the awkward airspace in Northern Italy
This is stating the obvious, but depending on where you are going, you can avoid Italian airspace completely
The RH track avoids it. The LH track doesn’t but it is practically a fait accompli because ATC will see they will be getting rid of you very soon so they will be as relaxed as ATC can be when they can see you will be gone shortly
Class A is the one thing you can’t go into when VFR, ever.
Regarding VMC on top, unfortunately many Alps crossings are just like the pic posted above… On the two EuroGA fly-ins (Mali Losinj and Corsica) the Alps were invisible, which was a pity especially as on the 2nd one I filed the FL180 route close to Mt Blanc which should have been really scenic.
I like to cross the Alps high (FL160-190) if there is any wind (e.g. 30kt) because it gives you a lot of protection from turbulence. I have as a result never had anything resembling a rough flight across the Alps.
One doesn’t have to avoid Italian airspace. One merely has to avoid Milan and Rome TMA (which are class A), if VFR.
All the rest is pretty much accessible, up to FL195.
> Guess it’s time to get your IR enroute rating :-)
Yeah, I know. I try to hold this off as long as I can. But eventually, I guess I will succumb.
Get the IFR rating! This is the one single move which will completely transform your flying.
Having said that you might be able to fly VFR through the Italian A airspace if you file a flight plan with full IFR routing and put CVFR in the remarks section By the time you are in Italy I guess they will have forgot about the CVFR and treat you like a IFR flight. But that is kind of cheating the system and if you don’t fly to IFR standards that is probably asking for trouble.
Patrick, we as IFR pilots will tell you to get the rating, because it makes such flights a lot easier.
But I suggest you should just give it a try to do it VFR in a C182. There’s no reason why it can’t be done. It’s just more complex ;-)
As long as you stay VMC and respect the MOCA, the flight should be safer then when flying through the valleys.
It’s a relatively cheap way to get some experience in a more capable/complex aircraft, and you will experience flights at oxygen levels.
I’ve had plenty of IFR flights with zero IMC time.
Guess it’s time to get your IR enroute rating :-)
I understand the IMC is the IRR. Can you fly in class A with it? (I guess not). What flight plan do you file?
I understand the IMC is the IRR. Can you fly in class A with it? (I guess not). What flight plan do you file?
The UK IMC / IR(R) rating is not the same thing as the EASA Enroute IR (EIR) rating. You can fly in class A with an EIR.
