In a poor negotiating position, for example.
C210_Flyer wrote:
Can you explain what you mean by that statement?
I think what this means is equivalent to having a gun to their head. Personally I reckon they did not really understand the implications or much more likely did not care.
I would not be surprised if in many years a scandal surfaces and it is proven that whoever signed this deal was bribed.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
I think what this means is equivalent to having a gun to their head.
Yes that was the case as far as I know. There was no negotiation power.
But also somehow contracticts general conviction that by rising prices they want GA out of their airports. What I see it’s abuse of dominant position.
It is a matter of time,the Sultan of TC-xxx land starts his games.As a sequence,the masses of low cost tourists will vanish instantly.I presume that these 14 airports will start wellcoming you back with luring NEW prices or abandon the investment alltogether.
Fraport aren’t going to make any money out of Kavala and Alexandropolis and probably a few others. That means that those airports will just be revenue-stripped without reinvestment (the usual procedure in any marginal business) and Greece won’t be able to do anything about it until the takeover period expires.
It’s important to appreciate that the issue is in 2 parts: Fraport doing their revenue stripping bit, and the locals seeing an opportunity to do some ripoffs of their own which “is ok because Fraport are doing it”. Greeks are wonderfully friendly, generous and welcoming people in person (one of the many things which makes Greek holidays so especially nice) but once within a corporate structure everything tends to change.
Dimme wrote:
I would not be surprised if in many years a scandal surfaces and it is proven that whoever signed this deal was bribed.
I would tend to agree with you. There is more to this than meets the eye.
You can take heart in the fact that the Albanians terminated their contract with a German company and everyone there is happy about it.
All I know is that that same company is at LHBP and even though they are doing a great Job for the airlines they have shit all over GA. In essence LHBP is two airports in one. An older one and the newer one. They have a huge reserve capacity but they exclude GA why? Just because. Not that it is not profitable but not profitable enough.
Hi @petakas,
fyi, the cost examples on www.aopa.gr (https://www.aopa.gr/images/greece_airport_charges.pdf) still seem to reflect the “old” Fraport fees and miss the newest increases, no?
Also, one more question: which is the current situation re getting around the silly PPR fees charged by Goldair / Skyserv? In other words, do airports still accept PPR applications directly to the local CAA Office (and not via the handler)? I remember some CAA offices geeting upset about this and only wanting to deal with this via the local handling agent… Also, I faintly remember some PPR NOTAMs which said this, i.e. PPR via handling agent…
Or is it actually the handling agent who refuses to cooperate if you tell them “I already have got my PPR myself…”?
Regards,
Yes AOPA have to update the document. I will let them know. Thanks.
For PPR at FRAPORTs it is still enforced via handler by the company. They do not accept private contacts.
Same for payments which produces the disbursement fee by the handler.
For PPR at LGAV Athens Int’l , even though its privatized, the operator (airport company) accepts self PPR by the process explained in www.aopa.gr/Info para. 24
If you get this (simple process) you can then let your handler know you have it and avoid their charge for it.
AOPA had to fish deep to get this data which conveniently noone lets you know about.
Right now as things are, Athens Int’l LGAV is the cheapest private airport in Greece and yet a full services, H24 big airport, friendly to VFR & IFR GA as long you don’t mess with ATC instructions who try to mix you with big iron. A visit there will cost you some 180~200 Euro in contrast to FRAPORT’s 400 or so. If you park for some days the bill will grow and in this case its cheaper to park at LGMG Megara with some total costs of say 10~20 Euro. A friend who passed via LGAV only for entry to Greece, crew only without pax and without leaving Airside paid 80 Euro in LGAV for everything including handling with AOPA card discount.
For PPR at CAA airports, the extremely busy ones in summer, CAA may defer you the the handler. We have heard of cases like this for LGIR and LGRP.
In such cases it may be a matter of simply being persistent and insisting on you getting it yourself from them. (contact info in AOPA document).
Sometimes when emails do not do the job you just have to pick up the phone and call them directly by insisting.
To be honest though in such large airports I would pay the damn handler for the PPR just to avoid the process. The (total) charges are not FRAPORT style.
At other CAA airports which are more calm in most cases they will reply to you all is OK and you can come as long as you have a handler pre-notified.
To be honest we (Greeks) have not flown recently to the “expensive” airports so AOPA does not have the all up to date information airport per airport due to the simple fact that these processes have killed ad-hoc Greek GA to big airports in Greece.
I was just talking to a friend with a large twin who has requested PPR to FRAPORT Chania LGSA two weeks ago for this weekend (mind you Greek Easter) and only today he got the PPR even though he was insisting to the handler that he needs a confirmation early on. Shame. He told me “imagine if I had to plan this trip not from Athens but from abroad as a foreigner or if this was not for recreation but for a business obligation”.
Many people experiencing this ask AOPA how they can help. AOPA recommends them to contact FRAPORT Greece and politely explain them the problems they face.
Kerkyra (Corfu) Aeroclub is already embarking on the legal action against FRAPORT trip through crowd funding. They are one of the worst hit clubs since they have no options to go elsewhere. They contacted GA sources in Greece for the crowd funding.
Here’s a picture of their parked aircraft two weeks ago, now (as of April 1st) being charged with the new pricing policy at the apron you see empty.
Only a flight for touch and go’s will cost them some 200~300 Euro in fees and the parking is some 13 Euro per day (with VAT) until end of summer period.
