Emir wrote:
For those who want and know how to send appropriate slot message there should be mechanism for achieving that bypassing handler and saving €50 for what is basically one e-mail
I had researched this myself in the past (and anyone correct me if I’m wrong),
From what I recall for SLOT self management :
You need a dedicated software for it [the one handlers use] + proven (certified) training on how to use it + a yearly subscription for it in the region of 700€+VAT
I do not fly that often IFR so it did not make sense financially to invest in it.
So if someone wants to do it he can certainly get his own (Slots/Ctots) in the same fashion handlers do for scheduled airlines or ad hoc GA/BA .
Regarding the PPR for FRAPORT parking permission (and GA parking stands scheduling which is all this is about).
This is another issue, as far as I remember FRAPORT requires for the PPR to be handled exclusively from a local representative company i.e. the handler you will choose because the software used for PPR scheduling/assignment is FRAPORT’s software.
In airport ADMIN language the HANDLER is the “airport user” and not the Aircraft Pilot as far as General Aviation is concerned.
AOPA in Greece had extensive talks with Fraport in the past for self PPR administering frompilots via dedicated web platform with login etc. but it led nowhere because eventually the representative of the flight is the handler and not the pilot.
There’s a lot of material here if you have the patience to read it.
https://www.fraport-greece.com/eng/our-expertise-and-services/aviation/slot-allocation
https://www.fraport-greece.com/eng/our-expertise-and-services/aviation/ppr-procedure-and-guidelines
In the first years of FRAPORT Greece operation these were not published, now they are.
If you find something interesting for the average VFR/IFR GA pilot please expand on it.
petakas wrote:
You need a dedicated software for it [the one handlers use] + proven (certified) training on how to use it + a yearly subscription for it in the region of 700€+VAT
I do not fly that often IFR so it did not make sense financially to invest in it.
Maybe it would be worthwhile for AOPA Hellas to set up a slot allocation service?
petakas wrote:
You need a dedicated software for it
I know that’s how it works in Greece. Is it something that is defined by Hellenic CAA or some other body requires this? In some other countries it’s enough to send properly formatted message via e-mail.
petakas wrote:
Regarding the PPR for FRAPORT parking permission (and GA parking stands scheduling which is all this is about). This is another issue, as far as I remember FRAPORT requires for the PPR to be handled exclusively from a local representative company i.e. the handler you will choose because the software used for PPR scheduling/assignment is FRAPORT’s software.
I understand that only handlers communicate with Fraport but what’s strange is that 30 min refuelling stop is treated as parking. I don’t know any airport where this is enforced. And even stranger is that this communication/coordination for that “parking” is charged 3 times more than cost of parking itself, similar as slot coordination is charged 10 times more than slot fee itself.
So questions one by one:
1. How can passengers drop off and refuelling (30 min) can be treated as parking (to be precise one day parking)?
2. How can one parking coordination e-mail can be charged €40 and end-user has no option for direct communication with operator (monopoly)?
3. How can one slot coordination e-mail can be charged €50 (end-user has alternative but at prohibitively high price)?
Dear Emir we (all Greeks too) have the same questions too.
To be fair, these costs are not directly related to FRAPORT but the HANDLERS and their oligopoly or to be more exact the
“exploitation of dominant position” (can’t recall the exact legal term).
If it weren’t for AOPA Hellas to have had these discount agreements for GA aircraft with SKYSERV & GOLDAIR for (any) AOPA card colder, the standard pricing (for handling only) is above 300€ per visit.
Its a very dirty game.
Airborne_Again wrote:
Maybe it would be worthwhile for AOPA Hellas to set up a slot allocation service?
It has been seriously considered in the past, as far as I recall, but this would require an “office” being on (say) 18hr operation with live person(s) to process the requests.
AOPA in Greece do not have such resources. They are private pilots like you and me having jobs and families liaising with aviation issues from home at their whatever spare time. Also there is not a “finance” case for it to justify the cost/time of such a project. In non summer months the COORDINATED airports (as they’re called) which require SLOTS in summer, have no slot requirement (in the other 3 quarters of the year). So in practice its (would be) a 3~4 month operation and only for light IFR GA since the majority which is VFR GA only needs PPR for parking and not SLOT.
This is funny. Fraport Kerkira LGKR have a 20 page PPR guide
Unbelievable! This system was devised by somebody from “another place another time” as the saying goes… Look at this:
They really want to ensure that nobody accuses the handling agent to take a lot of money for doing nothing ;-)
Peter wrote:
This is funny. Fraport Kerkira LGKR have a 20 page PPR guide
It is published for every one of their 14 airports (copy-paste same for all).
Even though the handlers are not that many, they have it published for transparency I guess.
FRAPORT allows only the HANDLERS to operate this process after being certified as trained for the job etc. and most importantly, the handler is the “LOCAL REPRESENTATIVE” of the flight.
For example if there is a fine for a CTOT/SLOT violation the HANDLER is charged the fine and they in turn charge the client (private pilot in our case but same applies for the commercial operators). Fraport does not communicate with private pilots for private flights.
That is why the private pilot is not dealt as the entity in charge of the flight as far as I understand it.
Us accepting handling where available is a CAA regulation.
Charges from Fraport via Handler is Fraport (airport operator) decision and if you deny payments etc. then CAA gets involved.
Its a closed loop.
LGKR was always run by “PPR-crazy” people but at least you could send a fax, later an email, and you got back a fax, later an email, with the permission. This new system is completely crazy, and could have been designed to entrap pilots into arriving and having a landing clearance refused. And then what do you do? Brindisi? No avgas. Declare a mayday? Get arrested. And almost nobody will fly to LGKR unless they need fuel.
I will go via LGIO. Hopefully they have avgas; last time I used up what remained in their bowser, but I had enough to reach Brac 
Interestingly there are recent reports on our database which don’t mention this procedure. They just report ~€200 for a fuel stop. I emailed LGKR anyway because Justine can get back from there by airline…
Peter wrote:
I will go via LGIO. Hopefully they have avgas
Thats the ideal entry/exit/refuel stop.
Yes they will have AVGAS until autumn.
