Hmm I wonder if this means that the whole former Manchester control region has inherited the Scottish policies? That would be pretty amazing! Is there really no separation anymore?
Since 2010 I believe
BTW that whole debate about DCTs is IMHO a non-issue. The router here doesn’t generate many DTCs and no more than say FPP used to / still does. And I have never seen a case where ATC appeared to be upset by them. And DCTs are absolutely essential for access to airports in Class G (basically airports that don’t have SIDs/STARs – I know Biggin is one exception).
The biggest issue is probably people filing at low levels – not just the UK – where a lot of stuff validates but ATC aren’t keen on it because such routes tend to probe the limits of what was published without much consideration that somebody might actually fly there. If people file for say FL100 as the base, most of the issues go away.
such routes tend to probe the limits of what was published without much consideration
At least in germany, they mostly want you on FL100 or above not because of some inconsiderate publishing, but simply for the fact that you’re in class E below and they have to give you traffic information.
Well done guys! That’s fantastic progress!
By “without much consideration” I meant issues like ATC having to do some extra work.
In the UK it is pretty clear (once you know it 
) that London Control won’t give you a service in Class G. But elsewhere it could be more fuzzy. In France, Paris Control would not give a service below FL120 (base of Class D) and this gave all sorts of issues with France-to-UK flights especially on DCTs across the Channel; this level has recently been dropped to about FL100. And only Paris Control was able to hand over to London Control. Yet all of this is “CAS” for IFR traffic…. Yet flying France-UK at FL080 is guaranteed to trash your IFR clearance at the UK airspace boundary 
But if you fly at FL100+ you don’t get any of these problems…
Yet flying France-UK at FL080 is guaranteed to trash your IFR clearance at the UK airspace boundary But if you fly at FL100+ you don’t get any of these problems…
What happens if you file FL100, then request FL80 as your cruise altitude?
What happens if you file FL100, then request FL80 as your cruise altitude?
No good. Have a look at the airspace class N of the FIR boundary. On the French side it is Class E to FL120 (mostly) and on the UK side it is Class A above FL075. So a flight at FL080 will enter CAS on the UK side but you must be talking to London Control to enter that CAS. If the French don’t hand you over to LC, you are screwed and you have to “know” you are now VFR and have to be below FL075.
There have been some changes on that lately but historically only Paris Control could hand you over the London Control. I have recently been handed to LC by another French unit (don’t recall the name – may have been Lille) so things are improving.
I am sure the Brit ATC end has been sick of all the CAS busts by people who 100% legitimately thought they had an IFR clearance and this was preserved because they were in CAS throughout (Class E in France and Class A in the UK) and it is not the pilot’s business to know that the ATC unit he is transferred to (London Info e.g.) doesn’t have the authority to continue the clearance.
If you can file and fly FL090-100 or above, 90% of the issues which one reads about everywhere just go away.
I was exposed to the whims of Eurocontrol when flying from Wick to Toussous-Le-Noble last year. Apart from the vagaries of the UK’s IFR in class G non-service down the east coast, we had to overnight in Beauvais due last light and customs. Having trained in the UK but now flying in Australia but in this instance flying an N-reg plane, I was taken aback to find that we could not file a legal IFR route for the short distance from LFOB to LFTN without backtracking to the UK and into France again. Something to do with the 50nm DCT rule…
Anyway we pleaded with ATC at LFOB and they eventually agreed to organize a routing for us around the traps, through Orly airspace, to LFTN.
Anyone have any other suggestions how to do this particular IFR routing? (Low cloud with ceilings at/near minima at LFTN prevented VFR flight)
LFOB to LFTN is around 320NM great circle, not exactly a short hop in my book. You can use router.euroga.org to get a route, such as LFOB N0133F140 BAXIR7V BAXIR A6 ALIMO B13 ARSIL G40 TRO B373 MOU A27 PESAN DCT TIS DCT OBEPA DCT LERGA DCT PY LFTN.
In case you meant LFOB LFPN, which is 43NM, you can simply file LFOB DCT LFPN, and add RMK/POGO to your flight plan. This is a special case for the Paris group of airports, and it’s been documented for some time in the Eurocntrol handbook. router.euroga.org handles this automatically.
