Peter wrote:
I’d say 99% of the “muppets” are VFR-only pilots
I doubt this. My estimate is it’s closer to 50%. I remember a flight from Italy home along the southern edge of the alps, happily bimbling along in FL180 or so… probably with Milano Radar. One transmission at the beginning of the sector (“radar contact”), and one at the end, as it should be. There was lots of traffic checking in and out, takes seconds as we all know. Except one Delta something who checked in and kept talking for a minute “we need XYZ after waypoint..uhm… and then request descent and once reaching ABC cancel IFR but only if clouds are before Monte Here and Lago di Whatevero etc. etc.” After his transmission, ATC came back and said “Please say your callsign, squawk and altitude”. And the guy did, only to immediately and frantically repeat his entire tirade of local Italian village names again. As soon as he was done, about 10 other jammed up planes checked in, stepping all over another in the process, asking for higher/lower having now leveled off etc. Controller was quite busy to clean up the mess, phasing in and out planes from his sector. Without regard for a current transmission (he probably couldn’t hear the other planes and had no sit. awareness) this special needs guy steps in again and conveys his free text plans once more. Controller simply answered “Sorry but that’s not possible IFR due to this and that (min alt etc..)” to which the guy replied in a truculent voice “Ok, then I cancel IFR now, thanks for the bad service”. This one guy took more airtime than a dozen “standard” traffic, pissed everybody else off and made a fool of himself and every other private pilot.
I hear something like this, something embarrassing much more frequently than I’d hope for.
Peter wrote:
ATC usually don’t have a wx picture (in Europe) but they might “get help” like this. A few German speakers translated the sound track (privately, of course). It is obviously right to ask for avoids early but they may not always believe you.
Yep, that one escalated quickly. They checked their radar and couldn’t understand what kind of weather you were talking about, fixated only on convection, of which there was none that day. That other guy in his cozy pressurized twin turbine airliner didn’t help off course, when he claimed “what weather is this guy talking about… I can see the adriatic from here” (sic!).
The combination of a November registered aircraft + a competent english speaker with good radio standard had them think of a much more capable aircraft (as in, no need to avoid clouds) in their minds and probably triggered their bullshit detector when you asked for a more direct route for reasons of weather. You know, some people pull stunts like this, a lot. If you’d been some austrian valley village “Ösi” longtime glider pilot in a C182 on his first IFR flight with heavy accented english and a few flightlevels lower they would have simply cleared you for “any deviation approved Sepp, report back on course” as a sign of acknowledging the desperation.
GRIFF wrote:
Please elaborate, do you mean prop overspeed?
Yes. Just needed an adjustment to the control system once on the ground.
And yes as someone above pointed out all I needed to do was adjust the prop lever in flight, but this was my first long distance flight in the Jetprop and I became fixated on trying to control this sudden problem with power control, at the same time as I was being vectored all over southern England by ATC.
And yes, the Jetprop is a classic example of an aircraft with a very restrictive VNE in the descent. Hell it can exceed VNE in the climb. But once again the technique is fine once learnt. Start descent at 90 NM from destination (assuming still at FL 260/270), reduce torque to very low level (350 max) and descend at 1,500 fpm. This will put you just below the red line of 162 IAS. If coming into say Sion in Switzerland where higher rates of descent might be needed just use the landing gear (before starting descent!).
etn wrote:
For what it’s worth, my approach to it is to have personal minima and stick to them.
I always now have this fear on the ground, how bumpy is this going to be? I always look ahead during a flight and go right, this will be lumpy and I feel on edge. But fully respect the weather and do my best to fly through acceptable weather. But I guess as you say, having personal minimums is probably the best.
Snoopy wrote:
That’s good operating practice. Albeit you can get nasty, headset removing and head banging stuff much lower. DA40 isn’t the most stable ride with those glider-esque wings.
DA40 can be extremely bumpy, especially if the aircraft goes into yellow arc, momentarily you have to reduce the power and it settles down. I try to avoid any build up with vertical extent, any wont go in anything above FL80+ as that’s usually going to be seriously bumpy. Most CBs I’ve avoided in Europe are FL150+
I did have those pulse storms in the channel that day to LFAT and they were hard to spot from the tops as they were pretty messy but you could easily see they was heavily convective. Tops were FL80-FL110+
Snoopy wrote:
Personally, and completely subjective, my impression is there is more „weather“ in later years in Europe. Maybe instability of atmosphere increased?
Strangely I think in Europe storms have remained the same, whereas in the UK the numbers have dwindled. Take this chart for example. Since the 90s, storms here have been few and far between per then.
Of the two big trips I’ve done this year, I’ve had to avoid weather on 3 of the 6 flights I’ve done. All 3 times I carried oxygen which helps massively.
Buckerfan wrote:
I have only had one problem getting wx avoidance from ATC and it still troubles me years later. Heading west over the channel at FL100 ish there were a long line of connected TCUs ahead and to the right, stretching from near Southend away to the north at least 50 miles.I asked London Control for a heading xx degrees to the south to avoid. They refused.
I watched this recently back in May when there was massive Thunderstorms ploughing through the LTMA. Everything was holding everywhere, even the enroute holds on the STAR’s were activated and some aircraft were flying through it. Majority of them probably through the building phase and had no choice, but once I heard an A380 call up asking to route DUE south of that to hold because it was lumpy and lots of ice.
Buckerfan wrote:
I stupidly went ahead and ploughed through the line of weather and dealt with pretty bad turbulence.
On my flight back from LEGE, things rapidly changed where I had to dive out of CAS because ATC wouldn’t accommodate a high level approach towards the north of the TMA and more direct routing northbound. They was keen on my heading towards DET, which was being avoided by A320s and the like (CBs that later became TSRA).
As soon as the ATC controller saw how drastic my descent and turn was, did I receive a better service with handover to Thames who offered any routing I wanted and Southend who gave me CTA transit to Stapleford just in time. I try to help ATC, but there’s a limit to my love.
On that same flight, I was racing a front coming in from the Atlantic and Paris wanted me to fly through it. I didn’t want to climb through a thin layer to then avoid and nor did I want to end up in the tops of a front because ATC felt I was too close to Paris. There was literally nothing in the sector. I looked at the Golze and refused any left deviation, except 5* till I had to avoid a CB over the Le Harve area, then by that point Paris had to coordinate a more direct routing to LYD into the EGTT FIR. Basically she gave up asking…
Snoopy wrote:
Never experienced something like this in Europe.
Come to think of it, I think it’s the complexity of the sectorisation of the London TMA. Anything outside the norm, requires coordination and the last 2.5 years there’s been limited amounts of that with staff shortages. I think it’s going to get better though as we head further away from “COVID” excuses.
Snoopy wrote:
I can see the adriatic from here” (sic!).
I’ve flown up the Adriatic in the late night from Turkey (x2) and oh my god, you wouldn’t want to weather avoid that in a puddle jumper. The storms are horrific and easily FL400+ – not sure what it is, some local effect but something I hope to do next year is Turkey in the DA40 or Croatia.
I found the wx got more convective after I got my IR 
Peter wrote:
I found the wx got more convective after I got my IR
I would say the same, when I did my IR it was convective every flight. Now almost every flight except my Dusseldorf has been enroute convection. Annoying but I guess that’s just “Climate Change”.
On PPL or IMCR rating, one rarely get to fly FL120, surely not inside clouds and most of the time on own navigation
With an IR, you get to penetrate clouds at FL120 usually on a heading, direct or route and it’s unlikely to be a benign one in that band (convective towered one or frozen stratus one)
The higher you fly the most nasty it gets, same if you are hitting clouds in RVSM airspace, it’s unlikely to be a smooth ride
Ibra wrote:
The higher you fly the most nasty it gets, same if you are hitting clouds in RVSM airspace, it’s unlikely to be a smooth ride
Digressing slightly but when I used to fly back across the Atlantic, the flight crew used to put the landing lights on and could see the Jetstream which was frozen stuff speeding along. My gosh was it bumpy, sometimes enough to make you feel sick.
The higher you fly the most nasty it gets
Not IME. Above clouds, the flight is nearly always very smooth. And you get much better visibility for spotting hazardous wx many miles ahead. This is the main reason for getting the IR in Europe – ATC can’t keep you down below some no-VFR airspace.
My estimate is it’s closer to 50%. I remember a flight from Italy home along the southern edge of the alps, happily bimbling along in FL180 or so… probably with Milano Radar.
It doesn’t sound like he was IFR on a Eurocontrol flight. Well maybe with a fake IR Nobody would be reading off village names when “in the system”.
Peter wrote:
Not IME. Above clouds, the flight is nearly always very smooth.
I think Ibra was referring to flight in clouds.
I still don’t agree, as a generality. You get all kinds of IMC at all kinds of levels.
