I’ll say it again….. what good is a basic service? It is no good to man nor beast, let alone aviator…..
Steve6443 wrote:
I’ll say it again….. what good is a basic service? It is no good to man nor beast, let alone aviator…..
If you’re over the sea and you have a loss in power, you’re already talking to someone who knows where you are, speeding any required S&R operation. In the case of Ronaldsway, they’ll have you on radar and probably on an assigned squawk if at some point you will or have transited their controlled airspace.
alioth wrote:
If you’re over the sea and you have a loss in power, you’re already talking to someone who knows where you are, speeding any required S&R operation. In the case of Ronaldsway, they’ll have you on radar and probably on an assigned squawk if at some point you will or have transited their controlled airspace.
I still rate a basic service as slightly less useful than an ashtray on a motorbike but possibly more useful than a hole in my head. Those points you mentioned above I can easily access by simply having 121.5 lined up on box 2 and quickly keying in 7700 on the TXP. In the case of Ronaldsway, they have me on radar, have given me a squawk so why can’t they give me a service which would actually be of use – i.e. a traffic service? My thoughts are that if I’m on a frequency which only offers me a basic service – i.e. I’m being left to “see and avoid”, no traffic info is given – I’d rather look for a frequency which can actually ASSIST me.
My thoughts are that if I’m on a frequency which only offers me a basic service – i.e. I’m being left to “see and avoid”, no traffic info is given – I’d rather look for a frequency which can actually ASSIST me.
That is not quite true. I can think of numerous occasions I have heard position reports either actual or expected that related to an aircraft I subsequently saw. On the basis that you could possibly fly around for 100 years without bumping into anyone whether it does you any good might be debatable.
I have had two occasions overhead a beacon OCAS where the other aircraft was expected at the same level at the same time as me within literally a few minutes. Being in IMC with no chance of a service I would never have seen them but did let London know I was changing my level for seperation.
I still rate a basic service as slightly less useful than an ashtray on a motorbike
yes… the BS is UK’s answer to the ICAO-mandated FIS. No more than a radio contact frequency via which you can say you are about to crash, etc, etc. And Ryanair use it for metars because the company don’t want to pay for the stuff via ACARS (hey – that is why they fly multi pilot certified planes; you need the RHS to do that 
).
I have had two occasions overhead a beacon OCAS where the other aircraft was expected at the same level at the same time as me within literally a few minutes. Being in IMC with no chance of a service I would never have seen them but did let London know I was changing my level for seperation.
UK’s main BS/FIS is London Info and they cannot give you a traffic service – because they are FISOs. To save money, NATS employ FISOs rather than ATCOs and especially not the even more expensive radar qualified ATCOs. So they have you on radar but aren’t allowed to say anything suggesting they can see you. I am sure they are not allowed to say anything even if they can see somebody about to hit you; in the SE UK such radar “picture” is seen all the time especially on sunny Sundays and I have never heard anything said on radio.
Peter wrote:
in the SE UK such radar “picture” is seen all the time especially on sunny Sundays and I have never heard anything said on radio.
Forgive me, I dont see this is directly applicable to my quote.
I wasnt suggesting they passed traffic information in the sense you suggest, but pilot reports of reporting points, times and positions.
I have heard when a pilot has said reporting the beacon at x, when I have subsequently asked for an update of their position something along the lines “that traffic is now clear”. How London knew I dont know (other than discrete radar) but I may well have missed the other pilot calling up – I am referring to the very odd occasion over 20 years or so, so it is a rare occurence.
Just to add I had an interesting PM and it also reminded me over the years of hearing another aircraft calling the “info” service provider and not being heard. I offered and was able to provide a relay thus hopefully providing the pilot with the information he needed. On occasions this might have been flight “critical” – for example wanting to know destination weather or whether they were likely to remain VMC routing x to y. Of course without “participating” in the “info” sevice this would not have been possible.
The last occasion very recently was someone in a Mooney somewhere north east of the channel islands with me off SFD south bound – they wanted to know whether they could route to Rochester and remain VMC and I was able to tell them the base along the coast was around 1,000 feet with tops at FL50. They diverted to Goodwood.
On another interesting occasion someone reported a ship dumping fuel oil in the westerly lane with a slick of 10+ miles – they couldnt raise London Info but I was very happy to relay for them and the coastguard were tasked – a matter I feel quite strongly about because washing your tanks is a truly disgusting practice and captains doing so in my view should be brought to book, but rarely are. The impact on sea life is dreadful. I know they could have waited until they were further north but London Info were able to ask and get the information they wanted which hopefully made it more likely to task accordingly whereas by the time they were further north the opportunity could have been missed and I am sure they wouldnt have wanted to go back to find the ship even if they could!
