Vieke wrote:
I pushed the yoke to stay level and gain speed
If you were a passenger in my plane and did that I would report you to the FAA…that’s how a license is lost. Once again we circle back to who is in charge and what consitutes safe practice. It is not okay for anyone to assume they can grab the controls unless the pilot is completely incapacitated or transfers control with a verbal statement of positive transfer of control.
USFlyer wrote:
I would report you to the FAA
Note to self: Never fly with USFlyer. Bravo, you would probably both end up with some FAA action, one for almost crashing the plane and the other for interfering with the controls. Sounds like a great outcome!
Democracy is for sissies anyway. (ducking for cover REALLY quick) 
Very interesting discussion.
Maybe a practical solution would be to agree before the flight that if the non-PIC is the more experienced pilot (on the type and/or in general) the non-PIC has the right to speak out or even command certain actions or, if this not gives the desired result, to actually take over the controls with the PIC letting go (“I have control-you have control”). If I would go fly aside a PIC whom I don’t know well or who clearly has little experience and that PIC would not agree to my above ‘veto’ right, I may not want to fly with him/her. It may not only be a matter of experience btw. The PIC may even be more experienced but somehow gets a brainfart or freezes up, who knows?
So, other than agreeing on splitting up tasks like flying and com/nav beforehand, could this be a useful addition?
Rather than becoming a perfectly legal smoking hole in the ground, I’d rather have a cup of coffee afterwards and and take care of the PIC’s bruised ego and make it a learning experience..
USFlyer wrote:
If you were a passenger in my plane and did that I would report you to the FAA…that’s how a license is lost. Once again we circle back to who is in charge and what consitutes safe practice.
Than you would also lose your license too I guess for bringing people in danger? (in this particular situation it was rotating at 60mph instead of 60kts and thinking you are flying kts instead of mph)
boscomantico wrote:
But I thought, like AnthonyQ, that it was important to point out the principle, which, frankly, some people here do not seem to have understood, which I find worrisome.
I don’t like the fact you are insinuating and drawing me as a person who does such things all the time…. to be clear, the situation I described was (and still is) the only time in whole my flying I pushed the controls to save myself and it was only because we were only – 2 -3 meters above the ground and I felt the beginning of the stall (the horn, the climb stopped, the typical vibrations and there was even a little lowering. – anyway, I don’t even know why I am explaining to someone who is prejudiced)
In all the other situations in a cockpit I use the standard sentence: “I have control” with the standard reply of the other “you have control” or in the other direction.
Vieke,
was that flight discussed after landing? What was the PIC’s position/motivation/explanation?
Was it a plane you had flown more or less frequently, so that you knew how it feels?
Vieke it is good that you’ve been kind enough to share this experience, and am pretty sure the FAA would not take action for what appears to have been sensible airmanship. This forum encourages open sharing of potential threats or mistakes to improve airmanship.,
Jan_Olieslagers wrote:
was that flight discussed after landing? What was the PIC’s position/motivation/explanation?
Was it a plane you had flown more or less frequently, so that you knew how it feels?
Indeed, it is discussed. That’s why I know he took 60mph instead of 60kts as rotationspeed by mistake with MTOW. (I can’t read minds, he told me that was the reason) And that is why he didn’t reacted, because he felt already on rotation there was something wrong and was looking for the reason but in his mind it couldn’t be a stall, because his speed was high enough – according to the meter (but he was still reading the mph instead of the kts notation.)
Anyway… he is even glad I interfered in this situation…. This happened once, and I know he checks now every time if he is reading the right notation and I do it also, because I saw it happen and before I couldn’t even imagine something like that.
What would you do in Viekes szenario holding a flight instructor certificate, sitting on the right seat and having named yourself as PiC in the flightplan form? In this case you would react like Vieke did and everybody would accept it as a necessary live saving action. So what is the difference if the situation arises without having the instructors lisence, just like Vieke wrote by a mistake (60 mph instead of 60 knots) of the pilot and a small time window for action? In my opinion Vieke was absolutley right to act and it looks like the guy beeing the PiC was thankful afterwards. Maybe some communication like “speed” “nose down” would have been appropriate to avoid the second take over of the controls. But maybe Vieke you have done that.
