LeSving wrote:
Having boarder control to Sweden (as in corona checks), has nothing to do with Schengen at all, since it has nothing to do with any immigration issues whatsoever.
Of course it does. The Norwegian border controls are certainly immigration checks.
The Norwegian border controls are certainly immigration checks.
No, there is no control of passports. The only checks are strictly corona related. A corona pass or a test at the border. Also German, Polish and a few other are free to come, since they are “green” countries. Sweden were “green” for a week or so, no back to dark red 
of course, you have to verify you come from Germany for instance. Easy when travelling with a plane, but more cumbersome when going by car.
Schengen is very much misunderstood IMO. For countries with no external border, they seem to focus only on the internal borders, whining if something is changing. For countries with external or a Schengen boarder, the focus is more on that border (to prevent whining from the inner countries). In the midst of the Syria crisis, thousands of Syrians came to “Schengen” via Norway across the Russian border far north, and legally so. But then the whining started. Sweden even introduced check of passports on the border between Norway and Sweden.
The influx from Russia stopped by itself when the Russians started closing up their borders. Lots of rediculous things happened. The Russians didn’t like that Syrians left Russia for some odd reason. They set in laws it was illegal to walk or drive a vehicle from Russia to Norway. The result was that the Syrians came on bicycle Truly amazing. The border was littered with bicycles
LeSving wrote:
The only checks are strictly corona related.
It doesn’t matter what you call it…
Airborne_Again wrote:
It doesn’t matter what you call it…
There is Schengen and there is not Schengen. This is a discussion about Schengen isn’t it? Schengen is all about the common outer border. Non Schengen citizen have to enter the Schengen area through the outer border at some place. That’s where they are checked and registered and whatever else they do there. When that is done, no further Schengen-specific checks are done until exiting the Schengen area.
Whatever happens inside the Schengen area is business as usual. In theory there is no need for further checks of passports when inside Schengen. This doesn’t mean the inside is void of other problems, like terrorism and corona. Each country are free to take the measures they think necessary to fight this. This has nothing to do with Schengen however. The Schengen border is there as it was before, and people are checked as they were before.
Schengen suspension can only mean one single thing: The outer boarder is removed or disbanded in some way. Nothing of the sort has happened at any point in time AFAIK.
LeSving wrote:
Schengen suspension can only mean one single thing: The outer boarder is removed or disbanded in some way. Nothing of the sort has happened at any point in time AFAIK.
The point with the Schengen treaty is abandoning internal border controls. The border controls on the outer border existed already before Schengen and will continue to exist if the Schengen treaty is dissolved. (Unless there is a general dissolution of border controls which seems unlikely.) With Schengen there is harmonisation of the controls at the outer border but doesn’t change anything in principle. So you are quite simply wrong.
Airborne_Again wrote:
Or are the “douaniers” in France also responsible for immigration?
On aerodromes without border police presence, the immigration checks are indeed delegated to customs agents.
The point with the Schengen treaty is abandoning internal border controls
by creating a “common” external border with specifications agreed upon by everyone, also the ones without any external border.
It’s a simple one egg in each basket vs all eggs in one larger basket kind of problem. The larger basket is the external border, and any talk about abandoning internal borders are void and empty without the larger basket.
The Syria affair showed that this was perhaps not exactly what the “inner” states had envisioned after all.
Current rules? France and intra-Schengen flights
In the last 10 days I flew from Tarbes LFBT to Sabadell, and then a few days later from Sabadell to Bergerac.
Tarbes: There is a sign in the business terminal saying that international flights must notify customs. I thought this must refer to ex-EU flights, as per the AIP which specifies 24/48 hours PN for flights outside the EU. Likewise I thought there cannot logically be customs on departure, we are going to Spain which is in a customs union with France. But the terminal official who passed us to airside did phone customs for clearance that we (all EU citizens) could depart to Spain. So that was puzzle no.1.
Bergerac: A few days later we decided at short notice to fly back from Sabadell to Bergerac. Again I thought there cannot be customs, this is an intra-EU flight, and intra-Schengen too. The AIP entry refers to “PPR” rather than PN. I phoned Bergerac just to be safe, and to my surprise the nice operations lady there said that while there would be “no problem”, I must send all the usual passport etc details in advance, to be passed to customs. An email acknowledgement arrived shortly after.
On arrival in Bergerac we were met by a customs official who inspected our Covid vaccination certificates and took away our passports for checking. On their return I asked the official how can there be customs when we came from Spain, and how can there be a police immigration check when we came from Schengen/Spain, she just shrugged. Later I asked the airport’s nice lady why these checks can exist in the EU/Schengen zone, she said she had no idea, it’s been like this since sometime last year.
So some questions appear, for the pilot wanting to stay out of trouble in France:
- Has France still suspended the Schengen freedoms?
- Are these just local rules, “the devil makes work for idle hands” at airports that have customs stations but currently minimal international traffic?
- Are these just a temporary reaction to Covid, aftermath of the former state of emergency?
- Temorary anti-terrorism measures?
- If we had gone to Spain and/or arrived back from Spain at a non-customs airfield, would this have exposed us to potential trouble?
And so on.
I know there have been previous postings here about Covid-related restrictions flying to/from France but I was under the impression that these had been lifted, except where there is an AIP entry or Notam saying otherwise, La Rochelle comes to mind.
Apparently 24h PNR is now required for all INT flights to PoE airports, there is probably some internal communication on specific airports but nothing official in AIP/NOTAMS for pilots or official press for public as all “done under the rug at regions & mayors levels” rather than a national thingy (there are about 12 airports that have something similar in AIP/NOTAMS)
I don’t think it’s recent or Covid related, we were told we need to send PNR in Tours while ago for Spain flight, I just excused it’s missing and move on, go figure
If we had gone to Spain and/or arrived back from Spain at a non-customs airfield, would this have exposed us to potential trouble?
Flying to small airfields without gates or non-PoE airports is safe bet for intra-Schengen flights in past years, since 2017, there is a written law and it explicitly says it’s ok without PNR even when Schengen is temporary suspended, besides you rarely get to see anyone unless they wanted to see you…
That’s also my workaround. When flying to France from an EU and Schengen country, my first landing is on a small airfield without any customs and/or immigration. According to a Dutch facebook page, somebody was fined 1500€ in Dijon (LFSD) for not informing border control before arrival from the Netherlands, which is an intra-EU and intra-Schengen flight. Due the fact that Dijon (LFSD) has immigration and customs on prior notice (PNR), they had to inform them. Completely outrageous fine if you ask me, so I try to prevent those PNR airports completely (except when coming from Switzerland, which needs customs clearance).
