Jujupilote wrote:
When I called EGJB Ground on my hand held for VFR start-up (mainly to be sure they had my FPL), they instantly answered with IIRC « cleared to exit Jersey zone via North East Corner not above 2000 ft, squawk xxxx ». I grabbed my kneepad and was proud to be able to read back in one go (felt like an IFR pilot )
This catches out anyone who doesn’t often fly to/from an airport located in controlled airspace, and that includes me.
Most times that I go to an airport with ATC it is located OCAS – thus when you call for startup you just get start approved and the information letter & QNH confirmed. It always catches me on the hop when I realise I’m being given a departure clearance which I’ll need to read back!
Keep note of height & sqwak and reply if you can depart on runway heading instead (you feel like an IFR pilot who just want to fly VFR 
)
Dover-Calais VFR: 2000ft if visibility is ok. 2500ft to 3000ft otherwise. Longer legs over water at least 3000ft
The thing is, why would you fly at 2000ft? You can go all the way from DVR to Calais LFAC at FL063, in Class G (actually the Calais end is ambiguous on that chart; is the Class E from 1500ft, or from FL065?).
Obviously if you do FL063 10nm west of DVR you will get sent to the “£400 Gasco seminar” so 5300ft is a whole lot safer in that general area and it is no less safe from the ditching POV.
I can see 2000ft may be preferred if there is thick haze and you need to see the surface, but in say 2km vis there won’t be any horizon anyway, so if you can’t keep wings level you will just crash anyway I am not sure low level flying helps over water. It helps over land in low vis. And for sure if the cloudbase is say 2000ft then a crossing below that is fair enough.
Pre-IR I had done VFR flights west of Italy at 1000ft-2000ft for 100-200nm, way out over the sea, no radio comms. It was really crap and I cursed the “people” who designed that Class A airspace. We got good pics of e.g. Capri and later Monte Cristo, here, but with just 1 minute to ditching, and nobody hearing you, you are watching the EGTs carefully.
a VFR pilot in France will never be required to note and read back an IFR-like ‘departure’ clearance
Certainly, many VFR pilots have never been issued any kind of departure clearance. And in Class G ATC airports you generally won’t be, beyond a left/right turn after departure.
Even departing from some Class D airports… for example I recall departing from Bournemouth EGHH and they clear you to leave their zone on track to Hengisbury Head (a cliff to the west). Most pilots would not regard that as a departure clearance, but one is still supposed to read it back.
I am sure many VFR pilots have never been to a controlled airport and don’t ever intend to, so they won’t come across it.
I was not very clear. What I wanted to express: I would fly Dover-Calais with a ceiling of at least 2000ft and good visibility. I would not fly with a ceiling of 2000 ft in low visibility. In other words, I want to see the coast from the middle of the channel.
8000ft is generally what I’m happy with.
The Channel Islands is a large piece of airspace. I cannot see why they would want to keep you that low all the time.
I’ve almost always got the altitude I’ve wanted.
James_Chan wrote:
8000ft is generally what I’m happy with.The Channel Islands is a large piece of airspace. I cannot see why they would want to keep you that low all the time.
I’ve almost always got the altitude I’ve wanted.
As do I, but on this occasion I had to be insistent about it.
As you say, it’s a large block of airspace and it’s hard to see how the gentle flow of CAT and (on sunny days) puddle jumpers inbound and outbound can be too difficult to manage. My own theory is that they just agree between Jersey Control and the approach controllers for the three islands that 2000ft or below is the ‘VFR space’ so if they clear outbounds not above 2000ft then they can go wherever they like so long as it’s not into the instrument approach tracks. This means the controllers don’t keep having to talk to each other to coordinate routings.
Yes of course. Most UK approach controllers seem to do that by default. The reason being a) on most days, VFR aircraft can‘t climb any much higher due to low clouds and b) most UK VFR pilots don‘t know how to fly above 2000 feet anyways.
The issue wasn‘t the initial 2000 feet restriction (even though that was at least disengenious by him if it was a cloudless day), but the fact that he seems to have continued to refuse a climb following your specific request for higher.
You know what, if you want to find out, why don‘t you drop them (the ATC provider) an email and enquire about it? I am sure they will tell lots of interesting things about agreements between ATC units, separation requirements, procedural constraints, blablabla…
The real solution is a twin, you are as happy at 500 feet as 5,000 feet – well fuel burn aside.
Serioulsy, Jersey often do this. Determined negotiation will always get you higher, as well a routing request down the beaches, with the added benefit of the scenery being stunning. Once out the zone, you can do as you please.
Yes in my case I uses that 1500ft limit clerance to my advantage and flew a scenic tour, I understand tower will have to “coordinate” with control, for my case I see no reason why they should be bothered with a low level vfr flying we requested at 1000ft untill they were happy/releives to kick us out
On coordination, I don’t think it is just the usual Tower/Approch guys sitting togheter plying ping-pong as you will have all sort of departures/arrivals from 3 Open-FIR on a small island with everything going Exeter or Brittany being complicated to manage for the obvious resons…
