Menu Sign In Contact FAQ
Banner
Welcome to our forums

Channel Crossing (merged thread)

Peter wrote:

@mh, what would you estimate would be the limiting sea state (height of waves, and the corresponding wind, say 10nm away from any land) for your seaplane?

The Lake has been known to survive a forced ditching in wind speeds up to about 25 kts, what should correspond to 4-5 meters waves. That, however, I can imagine as a very rough ride and you can forget to make anything resebling some sort of landing. More like a controlled crash then. For standard ops, the Lake is approved up to seastate 2 or 3, around 0,3 to 0,5 meters wave height. Wavelength and swell is important, too. I think on 99% of the weather conditions I’d fly VFR, the Lake will at least keep me alive long enough to be picked up by any other vessel.

Ibra wrote:

@mh how high do you fly in land? I doubt 500ft is good to prepar a seaplan for a ground ditching ;)

Usually I fly around 2000ft gnd, sometimes higher for noise reasons. However, if necessary, you can land the lake on its belly without too much damage. Dropping the gear takes considerable time, so I’d go for flaps, trim, gear if possible. (Trim is hydraulic, so while dropping gear or flaps, you can’t trim… or at least not very good). But in the Lake, 2000ft is just as comfy as in any other retract.

mh
Aufwind GmbH
EKPB, Germany

Ibra wrote:

Class G from FL065 and FL115

No. It’s class E, not that it matters for VFR flights in practice.

Slightly drifting off topic here, but in France, “Airways” are Class E from FL065 to FL115 at +-5 miles from the centreline, and in practice many gaps between airways are filled with extra bits of class E airspace.

The universal oddity that airspace associated with airways is not published as “airspace” in the AIP, but implied by the “airways” section, has traditionally led to poor charting (famously, the Jeppeson VFR charts did not show it at all), but I thought that has been resolved a decade ago.

The chart snipped posted by Peter certainly shows it correctly – E from FL65-FL115, D from FL115 (just about visible on the left edge); and the little TMA bit from 1,500ft to FL65 underneath. It even (unnecessarily) lists the airways in that area.

Last Edited by Cobalt at 16 May 08:59
Biggin Hill

Cobalt wrote:

The universal oddity that airspace associated with airways is not published as “airspace” in the AIP, but implied by the “airways” section, has traditionally led to poor charting (famously, the Jeppeson VFR charts did not show it at all), but I thought that has been resolved a decade ago.

SkyDemon also shows this airspace as class G…

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

I regularly fly over water SEP and I’m used to 2,000 feet for short stretches. I prefer transit the English channel at 5,000 – 8,000 ft on the long routes over. I definitely wasn’t happy going under the Rome TMA at 950 feet for 33 minutes. They wouldn’t give transit which I’m told is normal. The TMA is massive and you have to follow the VFR route below 1000 feet out to sea.

Rome is busy and the radio is awful. Lot’s of echo and it also sounds like they are talking into a tin can. I am guessing they have a multiple transmitter system which is not properly frequency sychronised. If anything had gone wrong, it would have been very difficult to get the Mayday out on a busy frequency and prepare for ditching in less than a minute. I was checking the EDM and T’s & P’s constantly, raft close to hand, life jacket on and ELT around my neck.

United Kingdom

Yes that is a ridiculous bit of airspace. No traffic in it that low. I have done it several times back in my VFR days. It is good for close-up photos of e.g. Capri and apart from that it is ridiculously risky because you would not get a radio call out before you ditch. I was told at the time that the Italians just turn off their transponders and fly at a reasonable altitude

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Attempting my first crossing on Friday from Ireland to LFRC. Am I better going BHD and cutting across the CI zone at 7500 ft, or coasting out east of Weymouth ducking down to 5000 ft to cross the airway, or transiting Solent and climbing to say 10k across EGD036? Also, is Plymouth who I should be talking to?

EIMH, Ireland

Peter wrote:

I was told at the time that the Italians just turn off their transponders and fly at a reasonable altitude

You may have to switch it ON again, wait for it to warm up (if old model) and set 7700, ATC will rarely notice primary returns going on/off

There is a famous story (true?) of F22 raptor declaring an emergency and needed ATC vectoring to land at LAX, it was not easy to get assistance due to stealth coating to appear on primary/secondary screens, so an F15 come along

Last Edited by Ibra at 26 Jun 11:17
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Zuutroy, I did BHD SKESO ALD , VFR at 7500 and it was perfectly fine. Exeter radar will leave you just before Jersey zone. Call Jersey early to arrange your crossing. Nice and smooth.

LFOU, France

I agree with Alioth. The engine needs fuel, and if you fly it, say, a half hour before crossing and the engine instrument readouts are stable, and you don’t change the settings before the crossing, the risk of a sudden total failure is very low.
On the channel there are many ships, so there’s a big chance you can ditch close to one of them. A radio communicator with the marine frequencies, which are higher than the aviation frequencies, in the 156k+ VHF range, may come in handy if you feel the ELT didn’t do its job. I personally don’t cross the channel without a raft and life vests, because I don’t want to challenge fate that way…..
And I also agree, the worst problem VFR over water is the horizon blending in with the sky even in an otherwise pretty decent VFR weather.

Safe landings !
EDLN, Germany

Well, somebody had a go, filing an MOR over ATC’s refusal to let him go above 2000ft. Unfortunately I can’t find a URL for this but here it is

It may actually be a scenario where the IMCR is usable on a Eurocontrol flight plan, because you can go IFR to FL080 in Class D (on a carefully chosen route). Normally the IMCR is useless with a Eurocontrol flight plan because ATC can send you into Class A. And an IFR flight can get a higher altitude.

The IMCR is useless for inland IFR flying on a Eurocontrol FP because you will quickly be vectored into Class A. This did happen years ago and drove ATC nuts, and IMHO this partially led to the present London Control policy of ditching FPs which are filed partly below CAS (below Class A); they want to make sure no IMCR pilots do this.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
Sign in to add your message

Back to Top