BeechBaby wrote:
Could I ask what the general perception of AOPA Europe is? Are the membership fee’s, value for money? Are flying clubs affiliated to AOPA in any way?Comments and help appreciated.
I’m EAA all the way (local and international). I know that quite a few EAA members are also AOPA members. AOPA to me is stagnation, live in the 70s – kind of organisation. AOPA (US) has in recent years been more and more “friendly” towards EAA, and the EAA has also become more watered out. The EAA is the one over there that the FAA listens to, while AOPA seems to reluctantly jog along.
In Norway AOPA is nothing more than a comma within a paranthesis. NLF is the organisation with power and influence. NLF and EAA.
boscomantico wrote:
there is no such thing as “AOPA Europe”. There is the worldwide IAOPA, which the european national branches are part of.
Agreed. But while there is indeed no AOPA Europe membership organization, there is an IAOPA Europe which is a cooperation framework of the European national AOPA’s. Joining any national AOPA gives access to this and it is quite good at regularly communicating the status of ongoing situation in Europe vis-a-via the European Parliament, European Commission, and EASA. Some European national AOPA’s do this better than others.
IAOPA Europe
I was referring to AOPA UK and AOPA Europe.
AOPA UK seem to have run up substantial losses last year and there assets appear to be dwindling away. I am not sure how this impacts on AOPA Europe and what support there is for either organisation. It is a great shame in my view especially when I hear from so many people that they seem to have lost touch with the majority of pilots.
I have been, and continue to be a member of AOPA UK but not sure how helpful it has been on the lobbying front – it’s most important recent victory, which in my view is well deserved, is preserving the IMC rating. They also arrange my instructor insurance cover, and for someone I know, they were effective in helping organise his defence in connection with an ANO infringement.
Wasn’t aware they were loss making, annual membership has been going up and this may have resulted in members cancelling?
Actually they orginally turned their back on the IMC rating.
From here
C210_Flyer wrote:
Well this is where sticking together would be beneficial. However that is not a concept most Europeans are familiar with.
I agree, and this is an area where I think IAOPA Europe is failing their basis, in general. This is typical of Europe with so many countries, each with their own AOPA. There is no consolidated representation across the geography for the overall pilot population, except for negotiations with EASA. And while the AOPAs as a group work hard being positive in an attempt to improve our lot (e.g. benefits achieved by AOPA Greece), there is no readiness to say “enough” and take the legal approach.
In Canada, COPA has a ligitation fund that is maintained at over $1m and they attack quite aggressively and successfully in court when there is a specific case that has broad potential damage to GA. I have not heard of any AOPA organization in Europe ever going to court, whether against a group like Fraport for abuse of monopoly or a national CAA for applying arbitrary decisions that negatively influence safety by increasing risk (read: mandatory cylinder removal without proof of cause).
Sorry for the rant, but this is a sore point. Perhaps it belongs in a GA politics section. [ moved to an existing AOPA thread ]
I agree chflyer.
While their work with EASA has been commendable in recent years and has had a very noticeable impact, these kind of developments require now a different approach.
I went to the EASA GA Roadmap presentation at Berne last year and the problem of outpricing GA was raised by many attendees. The EASA folks who were there were half aware of this but were appalled at the scope of it, when it was brought to their attention. But EASA as such has no legal base to actually challenge fees at airports, it is not part of aviation regulation (as they said).
I agree therefore that it will become necessary for the European AOPA’s (as there is really nobody else who could do that) to form a body able to deal with this kind of thing and on whom the national AOPA’s can rely for help should the need for legal battles with renitent states or companies arise.
Also what needs to be done is that these problems need to be made public to all pilots in Europe. There is no awareness of this in the general pilot population and most burger runners think that this is something they don’t need to care about, but I think this perception is wrong. The time where private pilots can sit in their clubhouses after their 20 minute cross country roundtrips and think these things don’t matter is long gone.
I also wonder if the national aeroclubs should not be directed to form a European body which can deal with stuff outside their own jurisdiction… or, behold, become coorporate members of an European AOPA. What is totally stupid is that many aeroclubs regard AOPA as competition when they both have very similar goals.
As for those who look at AOPA as a lame duck debating club, who of you has ever run for office in AOPA or even attended a general assembly? It is easy to rant about things. To change them and make them better requires a bit more. I am appalled every year when I attend the Swiss AOPA’s GA to see just how few people attend. Why? Also they might want to learn what their AOPA’s actually are doing. A lot of work is not high profile but quiet negotiating but is as essential as noisy campaigns. That AOPA managed to get a permanent representation at EASA was a milestone not to be forgotten.
But to deal with stuff like FRAPORT and outpricing in general, European GA must unite in a much more aggressive way. Otherwise we can just scratch more and more airports and whole countries off the map.
chflyer wrote:
Sorry for the rant, but this is a sore point. Perhaps it belongs in a GA politics section. [ moved to an existing AOPA thread ]
Well the problem is that your thoughts on the subject should never have been dissected out from the original Posted topic of GA Greek/Fraport. By culling out the answer to the problem whoever mover this thread here has in fact marginalized a possible corrective action to the problem.
Lets face it how many GA pilots actually to the islands in Greece? That would be a number that one would have to know. Correct? If only 1% of the pilot population of Europe actually flies down there the other 99% is not going to care enough to even write an opinion. However if these crazy fees are occurring all over Europe then and it is made known to them then perhaps they might be moved to action.
I spoke to US AOPA about some of the fees that airports are charging here and they were appalled. They told me to follow up with them. However after the 50 posts about the new fee structure that the Germans were instituting at EDMS most of which were pushing back that it was understandable and they didnt care. I decided not to follow up with the US AOPA.
Actually I went so far as to spend 100+ Euros to join PPL/IR to enlist their help but to no avail. Several email letters went unanswered so I decide to give up. I have a work around so it doesnt affect me. But Im sure it will affect younger pilots in the near future as more and more airports start instituting a new revenue stream. Ok thats an example of real unity.
I did some post moving on the Fraport thread, on the request of the OP.
It has seemed to me for a long time AOPA in Europe is ineffective and badly fragmented. With unity in aviation in so many other areas unity of our representatives organsiations would seem to be important, but I suspect each is seen as its own fiefdom.
