As already stated: how can carriage of a certain document be a restriction of personal liberty?
In the UK you don’t have to carry any ID but, obviously, if you have been up to some “no good” and you get picked up and can’t prove who you are, the police will detain you under some made-up charge until they can establish who you really are. How else can one do it? I am sure Norway is no different. There is obviously no logical solution to this.
So pilots have to carry certain documents and show them when required. If you are flying an N-reg then a passport is the only possible means of compliance (for UK pilots, anyway). This has been gone into in huge detail. Per the FARs it needs to be a “State issued photo ID” and the UK DL doesn’t comply, for some reason. This is nothing to do with Schengen etc.
LeSving wrote:
An ID card means someone owns you, you belong to someone or something. That is the only function of an ID card.
No, an ID card means that you own document issued by your government that you can use to prove your identity to interested third parties. Nothing more that that.
If you have better idea how to present yourself when opening bank account, when getting registered mail or package, when voting etc. let’s hear your ideas.
Emir wrote:
No, an ID card means that you own document issued by your government that you can use to prove your identity to interested third parties. Nothing more that that.If you have better idea how to present yourself when opening bank account, when getting registered mail or package, when voting etc. let’s hear your ideas.
I guess that is some way to see it, but it is different from what you first stated. I also walk around with a bunch of ID cards, but I don’t HAVE to, I do it for my own convenience (drivers license, bank cards, even a passport so I don’t forget it when I do need it). The police have no right to stop me and ask me to identify myself, that would require a state of emergency, like a war-like condition or something. They can stop me when I’m driving to see my drivers license though. Even the Nazis when they occupied Norway, where very clear that the country was at war, and they therefore could ask people for IDs (not that they wouldn’t do it in any case 
, but it was legitimate they way it was done, if it only were an excuse).
I have never shown an ID when voting. The way it works here is that you get sent a voting card. You have to bring that card with you when voting, or if you forget it, you can show an ID, or have someone identify you, which isn’t very difficult because the voting is done at many small local places.
Peter wrote:
If you are flying an N-reg then a passport is the only possible means of compliance (for UK pilots, anyway).
EASA FCL states that an ID with picture is required to show the holder is the correct person I always have with me the Avinor security card in the same bag anyway.
LeSving wrote:
The police have no right to stop me and ask me to identify myself, that would require a state of emergency, like a war-like condition or something.
If you mean police asking you for ID without obvious reason, you’re right. Otherwise, it’s not true – it sufficient to make a traffic offense (like crossing the street on red) to allow police to establish your identity.
LeSving wrote:
I have never shown an ID when voting. The way it works here is that you get sent a voting card. You have to bring that card with you when voting, or if you forget it, you can show an ID, or have someone identify you, which isn’t very difficult because the voting is done at many small local places.
Maybe it can be done like this in the countries where poll frauds are not likely to happen. In the case you describe someone can come with your vote card and vote instead of you. Or you can come without any document and vote instead of anybody. Strange …
LeSving wrote:
I guess that is some way to see it, but it is different from what you first stated.
However, this has nothing with your initial statement that ID card is sign of person belonging to somebody. Unlike me, you obviously changed your statement; mine is consistent.
Peter wrote:
In the UK you don’t have to carry any ID but, obviously, if you have been up to some “no good” and you get picked up and can’t prove who you are, the police will detain you under some made-up charge until they can establish who you really are. How else can one do it? I am sure Norway is no different.
I guess it is pretty much the same thing all over western Europe. The authorities cannot just stop you and ask for ID for no valid reason.
But isn’t the pilot’s license valid only when accompanied with a valid photo ID? If you are ramp checked I think you’d better be able to cough up some photo ID.
I think this has started to become a play with words. If the police catches you doing something illegal, they will bring you to the station (depending on the severity), and your identity will be established in one way or another. But, this is still no reason to walk around with an ID card. I don’t have to walk around with an ID card, believe me
The only “real” ID card (or identification document) I have is my passport. I don’t need a passport for anything else than going outside Norway, or outside the Nordic countries (Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Island). Actually it is outside Schengen, but inside Schengen I risk the problem of not being able to identify myself, because some countries require it, and only my passport is valid, because in Norway there are no other “real” IDs available.
The passport is indeed a document saying I “belong” in Norway. I need it, not because my government requires it, but because other governments require it (some governments, not all of them).
Emir wrote:
In the case you describe someone can come with your vote card and vote instead of you. Or you can come without any document and vote instead of anybody. Strange …
Yes, that’s right, but it is a very serous offense to impersonate another person.
LeSving wrote:
But, this is still no reason to walk around with an ID card. I don’t have to walk around with an ID card, believe me 
Come down here, and I will take you to Le Touquet on a nice summer day to say hello to customs. But please promise you will leave all IDs you possess at home. I’ll write a trip report about that here.
I think I did relate my wife’s experience when she forgot hers at home (other purse) on the occasion of one of our meet-ups. And we did not even cross any border.
I have also been subjected to two ramp-checks in the last 12 months, and I had to show ID each time.
Although what you say is true in your Trøndelag valley, and probably most of Scandinavia which is still “Kardemommeby” for those of you familiar with that (@AnthonyQ, you may), it is not the reality in much of Europe. But your nativity reminds me of Lilyhammer which has really caught the Norwegian spirit.
You look like a proper boy engineer, Vic
Maybe we should start a thread with pictures of us as kids… hmmm, it might be slightly disturbing in some cases 
