Sorry for the confusion – it’s a confusing topic and I’m plenty confused about various journey combinations myself. I’ll answer the questions on what they system’s technically doing, but if you need to know more about what happens once it his the border force, or when to submit, John Murray’s the man.
Currently our system is only for a UK GAR form. This means all data is sent to the UKBF system, and from there it’s distributed to police and border offices.
Integration with CI would actually be beneficial for the pilot – it would save having to fill out declaration forms on landing. If you’ve already completed a 2-way GAR from UK and Back, where a GAR is necessary anyway, a single click could send to both authorities. However – to be clear – it does not do this yet, it’s UK only.
So – FlyByMike – The answer is that the system is only usable for journeys were you need to file a GAR under the UK rules. Journeys between England,NI,IoM,CI are all GAR journeys as long as the England bit is in one of those journeys. I don’t think you need a GAR if you flew IoM-Jersey for example.
I think we are getting to the point here. You DO need to file a GAR with the IOM special branch if you fly from the IOM to Jersey, in fact you need to file a GAR with the IOM special branch if you fly from the IOM to anywhere outside the IOM. This is why I asked if the system can file with the Islands or NI authorities. If you contact Stephen I’m sure you will be able to sort something out with him. As others (island based) have said, if you can sort this out it will be very attractive to us.
And, I should have said, the reverse is true. Flying from UK to IOM for example, you need to file a GAR with the UK AND the IOM authorities giving the suitable notice.
There is a curious twist to the GAR issue in the CTA (IOM, CI, Ireland).
A GAR sent to the UK mainland is not supposed to go to any airport. Historically, there have been airports which demanded them, and/or which refused a departure (or even a landing, in one case I heard of) if they didn’t get a copy of it. Alternatively many pilots sent a GAR to the airport(s) which then provided a courtesy service and fixed it to the appropriate numbers. For the airport, this is completely wrong and illegal, not least because probably not one of those airports is registered under the DPA for storing personal data like that. So the “UK mainland end” GAR goes to whichever Govt body (the Border Force?) is behind that web interface – only.
But the airports in the CTA do demand the GAR sent to the airport directly. This obviously makes it a bit more tricky because there is a certain number of them, and none of them have a web interface for the data. You have a choice of
It’s a bit like the old GAR projects where somebody was going to set up a website which had a database of all the various police etc contact details and would send off the GAR by fax or email to the right ones. I don’t know if any of these actually got off the ground but I certainly spoke to some people, years ago, who were going to have a go. I think they all gave up because they could not guarantee delivery, so the pilot could sue them if he got busted.
And Carl’s service obviously could not legally guarantee delivery to any CTA airport. The only way to do that is to do what the mainland system does: issue a legally valid receipt. With that receipt in your hand, a prosecution will always fail.
Peter, I think you are confusing the issue slightly here. The GAR has to go to the various Special Branch offices, not to airports. I can send a GAR to Carlisle Airport. As part of the handling they send it on to Cumbria Special Branch for me for example. Alternatively, I could send the GAR to Cumbria SB direct if I want. The important thing is Cumbria get it within the notice period. It is rarely acknowledged. In my experience, airports only insist on a GAR because they want to charge you a filing fee.
Speaking only for the Isle of Man, I think if Carls website can e mail a copy of the GAR to the relevant e mail address in the Isle of Man, that would show sufficient intent, after all that’s what I’ve done for years, simply e mailed a GAR to the IOM authorities myself. I never get an acknowledgement. Carl could put a disclaimer in his terms and conditions so he does not have to guarantee delivery, only that an e mail has been sent to an agreed address. I’m interested to hear how Carl gets on with SB in the IOM.
The GAR has to go to the various Special Branch offices, not to airports. I can send a GAR to Carlisle Airport. As part of the handling they send it on to Cumbria Special Branch for me for example. Alternatively, I could send the GAR to Cumbria SB direct if I want. The important thing is Cumbria get it within the notice period. It is rarely acknowledged.
I think I said as much, STOLman. UK mainland GARs go to the “govt”, not to any airport.
But I thought the CTA GARs go to airports – except IOM where they go to the IOM Special Branch. The S. Ireland GARs go to airports for sure (e.g. Weston EIWT). What a mess… maybe, in reality, every CTA GAR can be sent to a “govt” contact point.
Doesn’t the UK GAR system cover N Ireland as well, automatically?
The ROI situation actually depends on the airport. That is indeed a mess but it at least is operated with a lot of flexibility. In Weston’s case Weston only want a copy of it. They also want you to send it to customs. They will send a copy to customs too.
By the way. Reading these threads would make someone think that Britain isn’t part of the CTA which of course it is.
My proposal to the authorities would be something more secure and integrated than just emailing a copy. I propose that the authorities login as a special administration account, and this lets them see the GAR forms applicable. We could agree serial numbers for issuing receipts and that would cover everyone. It’s early days, lets see if this gets any traction.
I apologise for misuse of “CTA” – we have the same thing inside the system with airports categorised as “main UK” or “CTA”. CTA Really meaning – Other CTA.
But I thought the CTA GARs go to airports – except IOM where they go to the IOM Special Branch. The S. Ireland GARs go to airports for sure (e.g. Weston EIWT). What a mess… maybe, in reality, every CTA GAR can be sent to a “govt” contact point.
I have never filed a GAR with an airport when flying from the Isle of Man. I always send the form to PC Plod in the relevant police force area (flying into to the UK or returning from the UK)
I did have a planned flight to Caernafon once (which I never ended up doing, so I don’t know what the outcome would have been) but they told me I had to send them the information and then pay them a £10 charge to file it with Special Branch. If I had actually ended up making that flight I would have probably tried to find out why they insisted on doing it that way.
I did have a planned flight to Caernafon once (which I never ended up doing, so I don’t know what the outcome would have been) but they told me I had to send them the information and then pay them a £10 charge to file it with Special Branch. If I had actually ended up making that flight I would have probably tried to find out why they insisted on doing it that way.
The Special Branch in North Wales have a policy of visiting EVERY SINGLE flight to/from abroad. The airport will report if they get a flight to/from abroad. So if you haven’t filed your GAR, then there will be hassle. Presumably the airport doesn’t want the hassle, and hence they want to do the paperwork for you so that they know it’s done. But then they charge for the privlidge.
The last time that I flew there I just filed online, and the airport were happy with that. But that’s probably two years ago. I don’t go there anymore because of the SB. Not that I mind being checked, but being checked on every single flight is a bit of a hassle and not how the system was intended. It’s much easier to keep going and skip the UK altogether ;)
